Would you be happy with a 36" minimum striped bass size?

[7deadlyplugs]

A charter captain proposed this:
"I have charters for bass Monday to Friday, 5-9 PM, May 1 to Nov. 10. I have been fishing NY harbor since 1994. By '96, 5 fishermen were averaging 20-30 bass, per night, clam chumming. Right through the summer!! Most fish were 23-27 inches. We would catch a few each week that were over 28 inches, but not many.

Today,.....same spots,..... we catch 6-8 fish a night. Of those 75% are now over 28 inches. School bass are missing. Ask the guys who fish Little Neck Bay in the spring. They'll tell ya' the schoolies are NOT like they used to be.

We are KILLING TOO MANY bass!!
My suggestion? 36 inch minimum size, one fish per person. "



Good for him, maybe he would lose a lot of business because of it, but he is proposing it anyway.
For me, I catch bass mostly 24-34", unless I am on a boat. I am happy with that and the chance to catch a big cow every once in a while from the surf (thought I have never caught one yet of "cow" size.
The point is, if that was the size limit, I and a lot of other guys who fish the surf would not be hardly taking one home, because you dont see 36 inchers every day. The cool thing about it is we would still be able to fish.
I would be down with that, how about you?

[albiealert]

I would be onboard with it. I have never caught a 36" bass from shore, so that means I would never keep a bass unless I went on a boat in the middle of the sound when the bunker are here.As long as I can keep on catching them, and releasing them, why not. For me the enjoyment is in the catching.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the posts, 7deadlyplugs. I could live with a 36" minimum, that's how it was during the moratorium.

I do think a restricted slot has a better chance of passsing politically, though. For example, a slot of 1 at 28-32". That way the land based anglers could be assured of bringing one home. That's important, IMO.

It's been scientifically proven that the most prolific breeders are between 32-38". I would be inclined to support a slot that takes that into account, leaving those fish out of fishermens' coolers.

In the end, I'll support whatever the ASMFC comes up with. We all have to learn to compromise to get things done in this world. I do hope they take their own stats about breeders into account when they make their decision.

These are only my opinions. Different ones are also welcome, so feel free to post what you think would work best, and why.

[jonthepain]

I'm for a slot limit. It worked before.

[Monty]

I would be thrilled with one fish 36" or larger, ZERO bonus tags. I like 36" more than a slot.
I respectively strongly disagree in Dark's compromise opinion. It may be the American way, but I'm a lot more supportive of the best way of addressing an issue not some let's make everyone happy solution. I'll follow whatever regulations are in place. Just wish the regulations were changed before this season started.

[jonthepain]

i could be wrong, but i thought that the science said that the bigger fish - 36" and over - produce the vast majority of young.

thus the slot limit - which worked - not allowing the taking of the big producers.

at least that is how it was presented to me back in the 80's

[Monty]

My thinking is if you take a fish out of the pool (24"-28" or in that area) they would never have a chance to spawn. That at 36" or more (1 fish), they would have spawned a few/bunch of times. Also how about all catch and release until the spawn is done?

[DarkSkies]

I would be thrilled with one fish 36" or larger, ZERO bonus tags. I like 36" more than a slot.
I respectively strongly disagree in Dark's compromise opinion.

I wouldn't have it any other way, Monty.
Differences of opinion are what make this world an interesting place to live in.

1. My reasoning for protecting the 32-38" bass is that according to fecundity studies, they are said to be the most prolific breeders. When I first started researching this stuff, I was under the impression that a 40-50# bass, which can carry anywhere from 4-5 million eggs, gets to the stage where it doesn't release all the eggs. Kind of like when a female of any species gets older, they're not as fertile. I know it's hard to believe, because it took a lot of research before I learned this.

Finchaser and others from the Stevens Surfsters, and later on the JCAA, helped the scientists to do some research back in in the 70's. They provided scientists with scale samples from the bass they kept.

Finchaser has also gone on record here and on other sites as trying to make people aware that the 32-38" size is the most prolific breeding size. I'm hoping when he gets a chance, he'll chime in here and weigh in with his experience.

2. Closed season during the spawn -
Monty, you couldn't have made a better point. This platform of closing spawning areas could be the catalyst for continued health of the biomass and a climb back to 2002 levels.
Maryland now does it in the Chesapeake, but IMO their "closed" season is too short, and guys still target them for C&R during that period. But it's better than nothing...that's what I tend to mean by compromise.

If we could really get behind shutting down all striped bass fishing, whether "targeting" them or just "fishing for bluefish" , during the spawn, IMO the bass population would rebound strongly within 5 years.

I don't know if that's feasible....the opposition would be marina owners, party boat captains, and many other powerful groups.

One thing going to fisheries management meetings has taught me is that fishermen rarely get everything on their wish list. The end result is usually a compromise, that's how things get done.

But ya can disagree with me, "respectfully or disrespectfully" anytime, Monty.

There are some well-thought out posts here, guys.

Remember, there are really no wrong or right answers, this is all about your opinion and your reasoning behind it. Great thread.

[DarkSkies]

Some thoughts on fecundity.....

I checked the fecundity studies I've posted for people before, googled "Atlantic striped bass and fertility" "Chesapeake Bay striped bass size and fertility" and a few other variations. There's tons of data out there, but you have to sift through countless scientific studies in PDF format talking about striped bass sperm proteins, sperm retarding agents, egg development, desired enzymes VS the harmful enzymes, pollution and algae effects on egg reproduction, all written by scientists and PHD candidates. About as exciting as watching 2 elephants have sex.

I did find lots of data going back to the 1920's in PDF format, so it's out there.

What people who do reseach and bring the resulting data back to internet sites as "proof" need to realize, is that in many cases modern research is more accurate.

Bottom line:
1.It may not be possible to get modern 2009 fecundity data. I think for fecundity and egg viability it's more acceptable to find and use data that was done in the 1980's when Willie remembers these studies being done.

3. I'm lucky enough to know several good sources around the same age as Willie, and they have confirmed what he said above:
a. Study found bass between 28-38" produced the most and healthest eggs.
b. Very few males grow beyond 36" and die off a natural death.
c. A "Hard Slot" can work- A slot of 24-30" makes a lot of sense.


6. Ideal slot size - would be the one that allows the most active year classes of bass to spawn. It would not target these breeders which are the most sexually prolific. This is why fecundity and fertility studies are important.

7. The biggest bass have the most eggs - Yes, but are they the most prolific breeders? I recently changed my views on this because I was willing to change my opinion as I learned new things. In my research, I found papers that talked about how sometimes a female will not dump all of her eggs in one season. She could only dump 1/3 this year, and 2/3 the next while still making more in the process.

That's why guys will sometimes catch female bass with seemingly full egg sacs after the spawn, and assume they haven't spawned yet.

This is part of the reason why exact scientific numbers are so hard to generate and have faith in, both for fecundity studies and fisheries management.

[jonthepain]

Ideal slot size - would be the one that allows the most active year classes of bass to spawn. It would not target those breeders which are the most sexually prolific.

Great use of common sense. Let's leave the most productive breeders out there.

I also like the idea of closing the season during the spawn. Only makes sense.

wth, they close hunting seasons for turkeys and even crows at that time, why not bass?

[finchaser]

In a heart beat 1 fish over 36" and 1 fish 24 to 28 so you can eat one. one over 36" only would have people whining especially the head boat crew. And no bonus tag

[storminsteve]

^ I agree. This would be a hard sell to head boats and the groups that lobby for them. How would you get around that?

[plugginpete]

In LI it is one at 28" and one 40" or better so we are already kind of doing that. they should make it coast wide

[surfstix1963]

I think our NY regs are ok other then the early start of the season it should start later after the spawn, so all the slap happy idiots aren't taking fish that haven't spawned if they can't successfully spawn we are going backwards their has to be a younger generation to continue on in all walks of life.If the weather is decent early on the blues are all over the bays anyways so you still have options.I don't want anything bigger then 36" on my dinner table and I have well gotten over dragging a big fish in for the glory of it,I know what I catch and I don't care what anyone else thinks until you watch a big one swim away you will never comprehend C&R.Carry a camera,50 lb. scale. and tape measure and if you want that fish on your wall take your measurements to the taxidermist.

[hookedonbass]

In LI it is one at 28" and one 40" or better so we are already kind of doing that. they should make it coast wide

Yep agreed