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Thread: StripersandAnglers yearly coastwide fish stock assessment, state of the fishery

  1. #21
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    Default Raritan Ray, Raritan River, Twin River System, and NY Bight

    Raritan Ray, Raritan River, Twin River System, and NY Bight


    Lord, I'm so behind on this thread,, time to get crackin before it's time to write the assessment for the 2nd half.



    Raritan Ray, Raritan River, and the Twin River System

    It's well-known among fishermen that Raritan Bay and the deeper channels leading to NY Bight are staging grounds for a lot of NJ/NY resident fish. Some small ones don't make the yearly migration till they reach a certain size, feeding on the crabs, shrimp and mollusks off the piers, pilings and rocky structure.

    These resident fish, while fluctuating in number, are cause for concern in years when they are not abundant, because they can be either --
    anecdotal supporters of NMFS YOY figures, or show that the figures are incorrect.

    I'm mentioning this because for 2 years in a row, the smallest bass have been absent from the Raritan Bay area, compared to the numbers we are used to seeing.

    I know they are there, I can catch them in a yak from places you would not think of looking. And the hundreds of bait fishermen along the banks can confirm as well. However, the numbers are dwindling, I don't have a scientific reason why.


    Early Spring Raritan Bay fishing is temperature dependent. This year it got off to a late start because we had a harsh winter with a lot of runoff.

    Early season bass fishing in this bay is primarily a bait fishery.
    By several accounts of those who fish for bass regularly, the numbers of bass were down.

    The "bright spot" was the bunker.
    Those who know how and where to find the bunker in their usual places managed to find bass up to 25lbs, a few larger, but most from 10-20lbs. These were mixed in with bigger bluefish, as is usually the case.






    Bridge fishing for big bass
    I'm going to do something here I don't usually do, to prove a point, and hope it doesn't backfire....

    Some of the biggest fish come from the bridges, because they are the highways the fish must use to traverse the rivers. Traditionally, when the clubs have their spring tourneys, the biggest tourney winning bass will come from a bridge deep in the night when bait is present.

    That didn't happen this year.
    Why?

    In part because there were access issues caused by some selfish people, who were warned by the police, and then allegedly proceeded to file a formal complaint alleging they were racially discriminated against.

    For the most part, bridges had less fishing access, and less fishing man-hours, put into them this year, unless you fished from a boat near them.

    Even with all that drama, I know some folks who still managed to put in some serious bridge time, whether on foot or by boat. Live eels, rubber, bunker, the standard presentations that get it done from those bridges and have given them trophy fish in the past.

    Hardly any trophy fish (any fish over 30lbs and up) was caught from a bridge area in the spring.

    Ask most hard-core bridge fishermen how good their Spring catches were,,,, and if you can get an honest answer out of them, they'll say.... "This Spring at the bridges sucked, where are the fish?? "








    The rest of Raritan Bay and the NY Bight, up to Breezy Point

    Many bass winter over in the deepest channels. Unfortunately, there is limited access. A guy who can pull a 20lb bass regularly from a deepwater area during his lunch hour, because he has access in that restricted area, is not going to talk about it with the NMFS or on a phone survey. But he will talk to me, and scores of folks do as long as I promise their anonymity.

    They are not getting the big bass from the deepwater channels like they have been. They are still catching, but the best stories I've heard happened 3 years ago, and longer.

    In the areas where there is public access, Great Kills, for example, the lack of larger, fat healthy bass this Spring over 20lbs was dismal.

    There are always exceptions. I know of a few 55+ class bass that were caught right off Great Kills this year in a channel. I would assume there are some more, unreported, every year. There are a few "sharpies" who target and catch big bass in this area every year, and you will never hear about it. There are also a few kayakers who have gotten in the middle of the schools at low light and landed some fish up to 30#.

    However, the numbers are not there.... not like in previous years.
    Without trying to overwhelm folks reading this, Great Kills and the NY Bight is a very special area to me. It's the area where the world record weakfish was caught in May 7, 2008 by Dave Alu with Rich Swisstack guiding.

    If you fish a lot, it's definitely one of your early season hotspots.
    In 2008 and the years prior, almost every night there would be a few fish landed on the beaches from 25-40lbs.

    How many times did this happen in Spring 2009?
    2010?
    Spring 2011? Virtually none



    Where have these big bass gone?
    If they are not overfished, why would they not be there feeding on the bunker, which are never too far in the Spring from Great Kills?

    Schools in the thousands, plenty of food for the biggest bass to eat, and yet not many bigger bass to be found under those schools.















    I bring this up because it's a crucial rebuttal to folks like Tom Fote and others from the NMFS and ASMFC who say there is no evidence of overfishing for striped bass......gents, feel free to take yourself to any of these areas for a span of 2 weeks deep in the night around high slack tide.

    See for yourself, the guys just aren't catching any numbers of fish or big fish from them anymore....


    No scientfic data is needed for this assessment. Those who fish a lot just know it to be true, because they see it happening in front of them. They are out on the water more than most, and it's plain as day to them.

  2. #22
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    I appreciate all feedback on this thread.
    Your opinions, reflective of your experience, will help to make this as accurate as possible. Thanks.

  3. #23
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    Some people are afraid to discuss the realities.
    They feel this is ammunition for NOAA to eventually shut things down, as they have done for other fisheries.

    Although I would not like to see this happen, and would still fish despite any ban they put out there, I feel if we are not decribing things as accurately as possible, it's not possible to see the big picture with any clarity.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    I'm mentioning this because for 2 years in a row, the smallest bass have been absent from the Raritan Bay area, compared to the numbers we are used to seeing.

    . And the hundreds of bait fishermen along the banks can confirm as well. However, the numbers are dwindling, I don't have a scientific reason why.
    There are also hundreds of illegals, asians, mexicans, russians, fishing docks, piers and bridges and keeping every striper they get their hands on, that may have something to do with it too.

  5. #25
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    around here, the illegals take everything they can possibly get with their cast nets, and mama cita cleans it and puts it in a bucket the second they drag it on shore.

    they tell me it's a cultural thing.

    they've wiped out just about everything around here, and the authorities don't do a dam thing.

  6. #26
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    If it's like NY they never show up for court anyway or they play no speaka the english no I.D. to even write a summons what they need to do is impound all their fishing equipment every single day or just arrest them.
    Cranky Old Bassturd.

  7. #27
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    yup

    but when they get out obama will just give them a pat on the back and a free college education

    and oh yeah free food stamps free medical care etc etc etc

  8. #28
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    Thank you for all of that dark skies I learned from reading it. You really know a lot about different areas.

  9. #29
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    You're welcome, baitstealer.

    What I'm trying to do is paint a broad picture here.

    It's not convincing enough to tell the average fisherman that the numbers are down. If a guy fishes almost every day, he will know that. But most people don't, and tend to see threads like this as propaganda or agenda-driven.

    Although I obviously have very strong opinions on this subject as striped bass are more than just a fish to me... I want to try to present all of the things I have seen and learned on this subject to all the folks out there who doubt this.

    I know this may not be completely accurate.
    If anyone has any corrections or differing opinions, I welcome them.
    Thanks for all the help, people, and special thanks to all those old crabs and old salts who have been the inspiration compelling me to undertake a project this size.

  10. #30
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    Default Spring 2011 Striped Bass Assessment Hudson River

    Some of you may have heard of RJ.
    Bob is one of the most knowledgable people I know on the topic of bass fishing in the Hudson.

    He's a member here, but we lost touch.
    I was in contact with him in the Spring, but lost touch again, my fault.

    I'm going to get in touch with him, and ask if he might share his assessment with us.
    My assessment and his may be different.

    4 million bass allegedly spawn in the Hudson each year. I and a lot of folks I know, no longer believe that number is accurate.

    However, RJ has decades of fishing experience on me, and he truly cares about striped bass. On top of that, he's a helluva writer, story-teller, and I hope to see a book by him published one day now that he's retired and has more time.

    Hopefully he will agree to post his assessment.








    ** We're now working our way up the NorthEast Coast.
    When we get to Rhode Island, I will be asking our member JustEd to post his assessment. He has fished for bass since he was 5 and has a unique background doing this thing we love.
    I hope we'll be lucky enough to have him post his thoughts on fishing in his home state for Spring 2011.

  11. #31
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    Default Hudson River Striped bass assessment Spring 2011

    Hudson River Striped bass assessment Spring 2011
    * This space reserved for RJ.





    *****************
    RJ has graciously posted his perspective. I thank him for all the time he spent doing it. Even though I may not agree with all of it, he has more knowledge of the Hudson than I will ever have, and we are lucky to have him post here. Thanks RJ!


    http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...eprise&p=53949

  12. #32
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    Rj 2

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    Rj 3

  14. #34
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    Default Jamaica Bay striped bass assessment Spring 2011

    Jamaica Bay, or JBay, is another one of my favorite places to fish early in the season.
    It's nestled amidst one of the most populated areas on the Eastern Seaboard, and has it's share of pollution, crime, and voodoo sacrifices.

    http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ica+bay+voodoo

    Yet, the fishery is outstanding, truly world class, at certain times of the year.
    Bunker start filtering in there in early March. Although the bass season doesn't open till April, the bass are following the bunker and predators fill that bay after the long winter.







    It's so outstanding that the annual Spring JBay kayak tournament has produced some fat bass, giant bluefish, and even some trophy weakfish, for the last few years, consistently.

    This was the first year that the fishing for that tourney was a bust. Some decent fish were caught, but I don't recall reading about any kayak tourney fish weighing more than 30#.

    In all fairness, this was a harsh winter and rough spring. The waters took longer than normal to warm up. There was also an unfavorable weather pattern the weekend of the tourney. These poor results could be directly attributable to that.

    However, I don't believe there were any 50lb class caught this year in Jbay by shore fishermen, kayak guys, or boat guys.
    There were some nice fish caught in the high 30's. In fact a few friends were out on yaks and got a 38# bass one morning, that was great for them.

    However, as I tried to point out on one message board, where are the 40's and 50's?

    Some answered me defensively, saying they had not just shown up yet. I don't mean to argue with people when I raise these issues. I am just trying to state the realities that we are faced with.

    And the truth of the matter is that while some capts will tell you they had an outstanding season in JBay this year by searching for fish under bunker schools, most of the "big" fish they caught were in the 20# class, with a few exceptions.

    This causes great concern to me and some others who discuss this obsessively.
    If the largest bass are being less represented in the catch ratios here, in what is arguably the best forage fish nursery in the region....where are they?


    I don't have fancy stats for anyone reading this, just years of experience, feedback from others with more experience, and these anecdotal assessments I'm offering to you folks here, one section at a time....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    [/B]On top of that, he's a helluva writer, story-teller, and I hope to see a book by him published one day now that he's retired and has more time.
    I hear that

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    If the largest bass are being less represented in the catch ratios here, in what is arguably the best forage fish nursery in the region....where are they?
    darkskies the answer to that question is that there are less large bass around. They were not here in numbers at IBSP this year. A few associates did well off of Deal and Spring Lake, because all those bass were concentrated on the bunker. The truth of the matter is that every year we are killing more and more big bass because those are the trophies people want to have pictures of. I am not completely sure killing all the big bass is helping the fishery to decline, though. It is the fish in the 20-25lb class that are the best breeders. I think there might be a good number of those around, but it is hard to get a handle on this with pinpoint accuracy.

    To follow along on your theory, it is possible that because there are less big bass around, folks are now over-harvesting bass from the 20-25 pound classses, and this is not a good thing. If allowed to continue at this rate, I estimate striped bass stocks will be at 1981 levels within 5 years or so from now.

    The thing that we need to protect the most is our prolific breeding bass which are from 32-40 inches, on average.
    This is why I strongly believe we need a slot limit with both sides clearly defined.
    For example, you should be able to keep one bass from 28-31".
    Or you should be allowed to keep one over 40 inches. At no time should you be allowed to keep both sizes, even on the party boats.
    This would ensure that these best breeders are protected, and we would not see a decline in year classes like the ones you are talking about.
    I have been following this thread and not gotten involved because I feel you are doing a good enough job at raising awareness. Keep up the good work and please do not get discouraged. The information you are putting out there seems fairly accurate from the areas I know and have fished. Thank you.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by clamchucker View Post
    To follow along on your theory, it is possible that because there are less big bass around, folks are now over-harvesting bass from the 20-25 pound classses, and this is not a good thing. If allowed to continue at this rate, I estimate striped bass stocks will be at 1981 levels within 5 years or so from now.

    The thing that we need to protect the most is our prolific breeding bass which are from 32-40 inches, on average.
    This is why I strongly believe we need a slot limit with both sides clearly defined.
    For example, you should be able to keep one bass from 28-31".
    Or you should be allowed to keep one over 40 inches. At no time should you be allowed to keep both sizes, even on the party boats.
    This would ensure that these best breeders are protected, and we would not see a decline in year classes like the ones you are talking about.

    Thanks for that, Clamchucker. I completely agree.
    We need to protect the striped bass that have the most fecundity. ie "most prolific breeders", and they are those in the size range you pointed out.

    There seems to be a lot of agreement on this from people who have fished before and after the moratorium. Finchaser, the OFFC, Surfwalker, and others have said similar things in the past.

    I think when people are sitting down at the table to figure out what's best to continue the strength of the biomass, your suggestions should be at the top of the list.

    I'll continue to talk about the decline of the biggest bass moving forward as I finish my coastal assessments for the year. I'll do this because I feel people relate more emotionally to a decline in bigger bass...

    But you're right, that will not save the numbers overall. It's much more important to protect the bass in the 32-40" class.




    Therefore, I'll probably come back and reference your words here as needed. Thanks for the kind words and for sharing your perspective.


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    Default LI South Shore Striped bass assessment Spring 2011

    I'm really trying to move this thrread along and finish the Spring 2011 Assessments before i have to post up the fall results....

    This will include all of LI except for Montauk.

    Montauk is a special case because of it's location and history.


    The South Shore can be compared somewhat to the NJ shore area with some slight distinctions.

    1. They don't have nearly as many jetties as are contained in NJ which is where the NJ fish are traditionally caught in the Spring.

    2. Access is more regulated with State Parks taking up much of the shoreline there.


    To begin with, most LI folks I talked to were happy with the LI spring run. The boat guys were very happy, the surf guys a little less...

    What happens is after the bass leave NJ in June, they usually follow a path to the Fire Island/ Moriches area and sit there for a while following the bunker schools. They eventually move as the temps go up, and the bunker moves N, although those generalizations aren't always absolute nor mutually exclusive.

    The reason for this thread is to raise awareness.
    I believe I can say with some accuracy that less big bass were caught from the surf of LI in the Spring of 2011 than in prior years.

    There was only a smattering of 40's, and I believe a surf caught 50 or 2 was weighed in.


    This year the bunker seemed to linger longer than usual, but as the bass became less "available" it seems charter Capts turned to fishing for thresher sharks to fill the gap.

  19. #39
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    As I mentioned in post 31, RJ has posted his perspective on the Hudson. I think it's an interesting read, and anyone who would like to learn more about striped bass in the Hudson should check it out.....


    http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...eprise&p=53949

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    Very thorough, guys, good job.

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