StripersandAnglers yearly coastwide fish stock assessment, state of the fishery

[seamonkey]

Dark, I wondered if you were finished with this Spring assessment yet and would be starting on the fall. I would like to weigh in with mine for Ocean City and South NJ-

I know most of you northern guys had a great fall, but for those of us who fish Ocean City and south of that it was terrible except for some action in the Cape May area in December.
I had a poor fall but don't have as extensive a log book as some of you guys do. I did catch some nice bass but had to drive up to LBI and IBSP to do it. Here is a post put up on another site referring to our area that I thought spelled it out remarkably well-


"Worst last fall/spring/ and current fall/winter in recent history. 3 years ago this time I caught over 75 fish, with 14 keepers. This year I put in more time and got 1 hit all fall on a bunker tail, and pulled in a 37 inch/18 lber and other than that got an 8 incher on a hopkins as that was only hit I got on a lure all year. happy for those who got on some, but awful year for catching fish here.. "



BTW I want to thank you for the work you did putting this together. I check all the internet sites out there and want to tell you this thread is one of the most comprehensive ones on what it actually happening out there. Some of the other folks extolling the virtues of the NJ fall run seem to have been fishing for 5 years or less. How can you form an opinion of "trends" if you only have 5 years under your belt. I have been fishing the ocean city to cape may (and also Delaware Inlets and AI) for over 20 years. Our fishing has steadily declined. Some of us think it is the beach replenishment, and others have seen the sizes and numbers come down. I truly feel the bass numbers are down and have had to drive to get to them where before I could just fish our local beaches.

I see you are having a great/ fall winter as well, and wondered how that fit in with your persective now that you guys seem to have those fish. Or you could put it in another thread. Whatever, I would really like to hear what you and the other great minds here think, as I believe there is a lot of hype out there when it comes to fishing NJ.

Also, hope you don't mind my saying this, and no disrespect to your site, but you really should consider becomeing a saltwater writer. You seem to do a lot of investigating and research in the things you write. You try to back up a statement by referring to someone with a lot of experience who says the same thing. Your talent for doing this should be shared with more of the SW world, and not just here. I read where you say you are burnt out from doing this, but you can tell by reading your posts that you are a guy who passionately cares about what he writes and has a good deal of integrity where the truth is concerned.

You would be a great writer, freelance or contract. If you ever write a book I will buy it. Please consider it, and thanks for trying as hard as you do.

[DarkSkies]

^^ Seamonkey somehow I must have missed your post when you posted it.

Thanks so much for the kind words. I'm on track to write, it's part of my long term goals, but it will not be on how to fish or where to fish.....I've lost a lot of respect for the guys who sell out all the spots for a few sheckels, and there are legions of guys in the surf world who feel the same way.....


Time to get this back to the top agiain...

a less than average season for many of the areas covered here. I'll be talking about them one by one as I get time.....for now, remember that a boat that can get itself in the middle of a few 30-50lb bass does nit signify the health of the fishery......and a Captain who states that the fishery is stronger than ever, either has been fishing for less than 10 years, or is doing a disservice by putting that mis-information out there....

As always, thanks for reading, and thanks for the kind words...much appreciated...

[DarkSkies]

Chesapeake Bay, Spring 2012




The bass fishery this year was very good for about 2 weeks. Other than that, many regulars in that area tell me they did not get the numbers of bass they traditionally do...and that there were a lot of disappointed folks who had higher expectations, only to get a sad dose of reality...

These are boat people, folks, who have the ability to get into the middle of the action, and still had trouble finding bigger bass consistently....

Additionally, the overall tourney standings were the poorest they have been in years....with winning aggregate sizes down from past years.....


Food for thought, people...

[finchaser]

The end is near they are going down hill much faster this time around i don't think an accessment will help little late for that.
Special thanks to the guy's in the bay with there little hooks that gut hook fish but keep the numbers up. A special thanks goes out to the snag and droppers who are all pro's now using this no brainier way of decimation by keeping 2 qand 3 fish day after day. Most of them concider the spring as there bass season because they can't catch one anyother way.

Most short fillet keeping the tail section because these big fish eat and taste like sh_t from feeding on bunker just like blue fish

[cowherder]

It seems like all we will have left is bluefish.

[finchaser]

Yep just like the 80's for about 20 years or so

[DarkSkies]

I'm going to try to finish this Assessment for 2012....
I let this lapse as other things in my life do have priority....but I'll try to get some of the Qualitative data I collected finished by the end of February.....

What's important is these are not random opinions by me on a soapbox, but a compilation of hundreds of critically honest observations by Captains and Anglers...all along the East Coast, who I have been fortunate enough to meet and remain in contact. I'm very grateful for their opinions as these are the folks who fish more than most.....

And absent quantitative data, or data that is sometimes flawed or skewed (look at the recent dispute in the Seabass assessments and biomass calcs)

I would submit that this Qualitative method of gathering and presenting assessments of hundreds of anglers...is as accurate a picture as you wll get at this time....and can been seen as a compelling indicator of
1. Trends
2. Concerns
3. Rationales
4. Critical Field Observations







Many thanks to all who have been a part of the accuracy in the Qualitative observations in this thread.......

[DarkSkies]

^^Sadly, it seems this year they are in less concentrations than they have been. (so far)
If you are fishing an area they normally stop at on the migration highway, you are likely to do well.

What I have seen and am hearing so far is there are a lot of other areas that are dead water.

This could be partially due to lingering affects from Sandy...
They are in an area for a night or 2, and with no bait to hold them move on quickly..
As of the beginning of the week, there aren't many varieties of bait in most of the northern bays, other than bunker and worms....

Southern bays are a bit different....holding spearing and some other small forage....


The Spawning Areas...
Every year there are reports of big fish C&R in these areas....
There are a lot of strong opinions on this kind of fishing, so if ya's want to discuss it please feel free to start another thread on that...











1. Chesapeake Flats fishing....
started about 10 days ago with some decent action....since then it has been spotty.....even night fishing with plugs which has traditionally yielded the biggest Spring fish. A few large were reported. I've received reports from some of the area's best anglers...guys who in the past said catching multiple 40# class fish in a night was a given......

Some are saying the flats fishing has been declining for the past several years.
These same guys are reporting that those fish have not been there in numbers this year.....
Why not?


2. Delaware Bay and Flats fishing....
The activity in this fishery ramped up within the last week. Nonetheless many of the anglers out there who are reporting double digit catches are catching quite a few of those fish in the 10-22" range....small YOY and 2nd year schoolies,,,,great to see them, but where are the bigger fish?
Again, I'm well aware of some of the bigger fish...I have the pics sent to me....but as far as quantity of big spawning Delaware stock fish...guys are already grumbling and asking where did they go this year?


3. Hudson River and Flats fishing.....
They are still catching small fish up there.....with an occasional 20# thrown in....but my point is, the big bass up to 60# that normally are swimming up the Hudson this time of year have not yet been sighted or documented.....Even by the guys who are fishing the lower Hudson, and NY Bight.

(Right now the NY Bight should be filled with millions of bass, if one were to truly believe the specious argument that the Hudson stock is composed of 4 million striped bass)........

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...dson-this-year
The anglers fishing those mentioned areas would be the first to see the bigger fish before they make the long trek up the Hudson, and they haven't....


**I know there are folks who claim to be experts on this,,,,saying that the colder winter slowed things down a bit....set the clock back.......I'll buy that argument, to an extent....and am stilll trying to be optimistic.....but if these fish are not in the bays in the numbers that they have been, not in the canals, inlets, and river mouths.......

Where are they?

** Yes there have been some ocean fish following schools of bunker and herring over the past week, but they are there one day and gone the next....which to me indicates no real concentration of bass.....This worries me greatly.

more on that in this thread here.......

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...of-the-fishery
food for thought, folks....

[DarkSkies]

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[DarkSkies]

Delaware Bay 2013

[DarkSkies]

Some of this I may eventually reference in the StripersAndAnglers state of the Fishery thread......
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...of-the-fishery


A member called me today. This is a guy who has decades of experience and has fished for bass for many years before the moratorium and still fishes when he can get out there........He has a good friend who is a Cape May Charter Capt....I'm paraphrasing here, what his Capt friend told him about the 2013 Striper run in the Delaware Bay......





"The 2013 bass run in the Delaware Bay has been the worst Spring fishery in all the years I have been fishing that bay.
The bass just were not there in numbers. Some have blamed the cold weather and the winds which made fishing difficult. There has been some good fishing above the Commodore Barry. As for the lower bay it has been terrible.
We have had to entice our clients who normally want to bass fish, with wreck fishing trips, or we would have had no income. "

[DarkSkies]

Posted 5-9-14

3. Once again, the striper biomass doesn't need saving. It's as strong as ever. SAVE THE WEAKFISH!

1. Dark, Please delete any reference to me in the OP.

2. Sorry, if I disagree but like you said Facts are Facts and

3. I completely disagree much of what you say and really would not like to be associated with your opinions here.

4. Right on schedule the Raritan bay bass have arrived in full force.

Ya know Capt Paul, I really tried to have an adult discussion with you here....but you bring no facts, figures or credibility to the table. We all make mistakes, none of us is perfect. I was hoping you would have time to reflect on your answers and possibly review them in light of doing just the simplest research.
However, you have done none of that, so let's let the chips fall where they may....leaving me no choice but to memorialize you and your most ignorant statement.

1. You continue to make statements which not only are ignorant, but arrogantly myopic. Too lazy to even do some basic research. Then, when someone challenges you on your lack of knowledge, you want to be excluded from further comments. How does that work, Paul?

2. You continue to state "facts are facts", and offer nothing in return to support your "facts".
You haven't offered any log stats to support your claims.
You haven't offered any logic or personal experience to back your claims.

3. You disagree, but offer nothing to support your position that "the striped bass are healthier than ever" @Capt Paul Goins, April 2014.
You must think that most fishermen out there are stupid.




4. The Raritan migratory fish that you talk about arriving in "full force" were nowhere to be found before April 17...you and your fellow Capts, along with scores of shore anglers trying for them, found limited success before that date........
A. What happened to the thousands of resident bass that are caught in the Raritan bay and NY Bight each year, before the migratory fish show up?

B. What happened to the robust Jamaica Bay fishery that is usually on fire, this time of year, before the fish go up the Hudson......it is inconsistent right now, compared to past years....so poor (as of this date) that NY guys who normally fish Jamaica bay are coming over to NJ to fish......


C. How have your logs shown that the striped bass are healthier than ever?

1. I'm all for conservation and have stated several times that I think we should go back to some sort of slot size to keep the striper population strong.

2. But by no means is the Biomass is any kind of trouble.
Now a guy goes out and gets skunked and he believes fishery must be in trouble.

Again, Capt Paul, I hesitated before posting this.........
Wanted to try to find your motivation for stating your position, without doing any research at all...so I took some time, and researched your posts......could find nothing in there supporting your claim either.

As I said, we are all ignorant of some things, we all make mistakes.....but your arrogant ignorance, on top of being too lazy to do basic research, tells me either you just figure because you can call a friend when bass are feeding on bunker and catch fish.....folks might feel you are truly a great captain.....

The best Capts, (maybe JMO) are ones that can find bass, when they are hard to find,....
a. a Capt who fishes all day and scratches out a few fish, when no one else is catching,......or the bass are not that thick.....deserves more recognition than
b. someone who gets that success from a cell phone call

The more I read of your posts, and arrogance to at least look beyond the limited waters that you fish....the more I come to the conclusion that
1. You are closer in attitude to someone in Group b above, or...
2. You have a financial agenda that you won't talk about in trying to convince folks here..... that there are more fish, than there are.




Either way, without taking the incentive to do basic research, and arrogantly proclaiming the same thing over and over.....your credibility suffers greatly.
And your unwillingness to offer even the most basic facts or your log stats, or anything at all....to support your claim, may work with your friends here, in this Raritan bay forum....but takes away from your credibility each time you make this uninformed statement.
On other forums on the internet,.and on BassBarn, seasoned Capts are talking about what they are seeing.....and not one Capt is making the arrogant denials that you are...unless he has a hidden financial agenda.....


**Further, this arrogance shows you have limited knowledge of
1. Striped bass migration
2. Forage migration and any shifting patterns.
3. Spawning behavior and how to pattern it to figure out where fish might be during this time.
........which any good Captain, and many Captains on this site, are well-aware of.

[DarkSkies]

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[DarkSkies]

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[DarkSkies]

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[DarkSkies]

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[DarkSkies]

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[DarkSkies]

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