Why are there no fish in Montauk right now?

[DarkSkies]

This is also the first really successful year class since 2003, and it comes at a time when most signs have indicated the fishery was in real trouble

This is certainly a positive development for striped bass, and while this boost to the population is something to look forward to, it is also important to consider these points:

2.It will be 8 years before this year class will be 28 inches long and legally available to the coastal fishery. Long before then all but a few remnants of the 2003 year class, which provides most of the current coastal catch, will have died of old age. Current coastal commercial quotas and recreational harvest are clearly excessive considering the gap that exists between the 2003 and 2011 year classes.

Some states, especially those with commercial fisheries, will see this year’s Young of the Year survey as a solid excuse not to reduce fishing mortality on striped bass.

Guys, thanks for the responses on this. I realize everyone who posts in this thread cares abouit striped bass, every single one of ya's.
Although we may not agree on all the points, I feel the point I highlighted above is one of the key ones I wish people would realize. One year does not a fishery make. The fishing at Montauk is the worst it has been in years. Fish are in the Rips and Block Island/Plum Gut/The Race, but the existence of those fish does not "prove" that the numbers are healthy.

Over and over again, it's been drummed into my head that the fish on the edges, beaches, sedges, rivers, and points, are a better indication of the health of the fishery because those are the fish that make up the variation in the statistical spread as it's calculated.

Can you really count 36 million fish?
Absolutely not.

As RJ correctly points out, there has to be some accepted statistical method of assessing the size of the biomass. We have to accept some standards.

I agree, but feel with all of the evidence we have before us, the system of assessing the numbers of these fish is flawed. I would go as far to say that I feel it's broken, but some would argue with that.....

And I'm not looking to argue here, just to understand...

Why veteran anglers who fish 5 days or nights a week can't seem to connect with the fish like they used to...

Why the best of the best in the fishing clubs in NJ and LI have not been able to consistently catch fish at Montauk this fall, even on the night shift?

Why the average size of striped bass reported by Montauk and other adjacent area Capts has been declining... Please... I know about the biigger bass, I read the reports obsessively...but the average size is declining..with the exception of the last few weeks, many charter trips have returned with bass in the teens and low 20's..if these are the only fish they were catching, where are the bigger fish?

Why, with barely 6 weeks left in the fall 2011 fishing season, are we still waiting for the Montauk "fall run" to show some life?






There are too many variables that are melting down to dismal reports this fall.
I'm hoping that folks out there are paying attention....

Some of the early trailblazers and conservationists like the OFFC have bowed out of the politics as they felt it was too tiresome to keep explaining this over and over again.


Finchaser only has limited energy to keep his "rants" up. Someday soon, he may give up the fight as sometime it feels like there are too many conflicting theories out there......All we know is, with or without science to support it, we are collectively catching less fish, and working harder to catch the ones we do....



If this doesn't give anyone reason to think about, then don't claim you tried to help when there are even less bass to catch, as we wait the 8 years for this 2010 class to mature....

[BassBuddah]

Why the average size of striped bass reported by Montauk and other adjacent area Capts has been declining... Please... I know about the biigger bass, I read the reports obsessively...but the average size is declining..with the exception of the last few weeks, many charter trips have returned with bass in the teens and low 20's..if these are the only fish they were catching, where are the bigger fish?

Why, with barely 6 weeks left in the fall 2011 fishing season, are we still waiting for the Montauk "fall run" to show some life?

Well said DS. This is my worst year at Montauk in 15 years. Not only are the fish not around the obvious places like the point, they are thinly distributed, as a friend of mine calls it.
According to my logs, it is less than the 6 weeks you mention, dark, up here we only have about 4 weeks left.
Here is a report from Nov 2010 the montauk Sportfishing site confirming your statement about declining sizes:

November 22, 2010

It’s been a pretty good week, three days without wind.The herring are here, and plentiful right at the mouth of the Inlet, so the first step for most boats is to make a couple of drifts with the Sabikis and load up on them. The next step is to head on down to the Point, look for the birds, and start catching bass, lots of them. No big ones though. Just about everything is 10-12 lbs.... Except for the time just after the herring arrived, November wasn’t all that great.

[RJC]

babaloey - I answered your question in the Hudson River Reprise thread. Darkskies, babaloey's questions answer might have given a reason your pier and river rats are not seeing the numbers there as well. At least in their spring fishing numbers. Check it out.

2003 was a good year for Chessy Bay fish, but 2007 was the largest class year for Hudson River Tribe fish since they began to do the YOY net haul records. 35 fish per haul. The HR average over the years is 14 fpnh compared to the chessy's 4fpnh historical average. The HR contributes less, but it contributes quality fish in high numbers and a productivity level 65% higher than the beat up and abused waters of the Chesapeake Bay. 2015 will ring your chimes with Hudson River fish. The Chessy Bay high you are excited about was only 11 fish per net haul. Those 35 fish per net haul out of NY will rock you in 4 years and continue to fill in the empty spaces till the "good" class year Chessy fish have any impact.

The North of Cape Cod anglers will barely see a bump in their numbers from the 2007 and almost as good 2011 Chessy "good" class years, while everyone south of Race point will enjoy relatively good years, thanks to the Hudson River Tribe in 2015 and beyond. Those Hudson River baby's summer from Race Pt. MA to Cape May, NJ. Wowzaaah!

PS the system is working. See my "reprise" thread.

Mick, we are just starting to connect with fish here on the North End of the NJ Beaches. A friend did a night trip to the rip at SH Sat. night and they boated 33 fat striped bass to 30 pounds. They kept 6. Clams and eels did the trick.

I see M has SW winds again today and tomorrow. Peanut bunker are starting to move out of the Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers.

[fishinmission78]

2015 will ring your chimes with Hudson River fish. The Chessy Bay high you are excited about was only 11 fish per net haul. Those 35 fish per net haul out of NY will rock you in 4 years and continue to fill in the empty spaces till the "good" class year Chessy fish have any impact.

How can you make such rosy predictions for 2015 when the fishing sucks so bad right now? Over the last 2 weeks I watched miles of bunker schools off Lavalette, not even small bluefish were harassing them. One day last week my friends got into fish on the boats, one day out of 15. I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not. Want to sell me a bridge that connects brooklyn and manhattan too?

[jigfreak]

I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not.

Yessir, 2,500,000 of them are hiding behind the 3rd set of rocks furthest from the point. I can't figure out where else they could be either. Certainly not in my neck of the woods.

[RJC]

How can you make such rosy predictions for 2015 when the fishing sucks so bad right now? Over the last 2 weeks I watched miles of bunker schools off Lavalette, not even small bluefish were harassing them. One day last week my friends got into fish on the boats, one day out of 15. I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not. Want to sell me a bridge that connects brooklyn and manhattan too?

Ahh! fishinmission. You don't understand the mechanics of YOY Striped Bass collection.

The summer of 2015 the largest birthing of Hudson River strain striped bass in recorded history, will put many more fish at your Lovealott doorstep for the whole spring, summer and fall of 2015.. They will be 8 years old and about 28 inches that summer. The ladies of that class year will have deposited about 250,000 eggs each in the Hudson River in Mid May. This breed of striped bass spends their summers between the southern beaches of Cape Cod and Cape May. At the end of the summer, a large group will stage off of the NJ beaches and filter intothe Hudson River to winter over in the salty lower end at Haverstraw Bay.

Here is a reading assignment for the winter for you. Get the Ocean County library to order you this book. Fly Fishing for Striped Bass by Ric Murphy. It is a $60.00 book. But if you like it, you can probably order it used (ordered but not sold) from Amazon for half that amount.

Your probably not a fly fisherman, but if you want to understand striped bass the first 122 pages will make you an expert in the life and times of this fish. Once you read the first 122 pages. No short cuts or wanderings. (I made that mistake my self. took me a couple of years to realize the mistake I made.) Read the forward, the introduction and then the 122 pages. you will be amazed. You will astonish your family and friends with your knowledge of the finest fish in sight of our coastal environment.

In those pages he touches every second of the life of a striped bass that grows to be 55 pounds and 20 years old. He puts you inside the fish and the magnificent, functioning of its mind, body, vision and scenting. Its birth, migration experience, hunting ability, everything.

When you complete the first 122 pages, I want you to PM me and let me know how you liked it. Don't push it away. You will regret it.

PS The Hudson River has been pumping fresh, muddy water into the ocean for a month. That is slowly being adusted by the tide as we speak. I believe that huge run off even from the 25,000 sq. miles the Hudson River Watershed drains has held up our coastal fishing for at least a month. Irene and Leigh did us no favors. The peanut bunker are starting the exit the back bays. Sharpen your hooks and gird your loins.


PS - You seem to be a lot like me, so let me tell ya its got gonzo photos, diagrams, side bars, and fishing tips it would take you a lifetime to learn.

[fishinmission78]

Ahh! fishinmission. You don't understand the mechanics of YOY Striped Bass collection.

The summer of 2015 the largest birthing of Hudson River strain striped bass in recorded history, will put many more fish at your Lovealott doorstep for the whole spring, summer and fall of 2015.. They will be 8 years old and about 28 inches that summer. :

I am not understanding your rose colored predictions here RJC. Based on one year class? Do bass mature to full size in one year or is this a typo? If one year class is so good, maybe we can get this magical year class to promote world peace and conquer hunger at the same time. I just don't see the logic here. Let's hear about your catches, how many big fish did you catch this year? How many did you catch 5 years ago?
Upper Ocean county is a dead zone right now. One 15lb bass weighed in at B&N yesterday. The occasional small bass, miles of bunker, and the life in the ocean resembles the water after the Exxon Valdez dumped oil.

[RJC]

fishinmission. I was just explaining the yoy projection of the 2007 year class to you. No magic. I've been fishing the beach for 5 weeks and know full well of the large bunker schools and the steady progression of mullet pods moving down the beach from me to you with minimal is any predator activity noted. I've only seene a single large swirl of birds feeding about 500 yards out from Monmouth Beach, just south of the Shrewsbury Rocks this season.

The predators are begining to show up here at the north end of the beach 33 striped bass to 30 pounds were caught in the Sandy Hook rip on Saturday night sing a combo of eels and clams. The Bridges are starting to give up striped bass to 31 inches the past few day of a dropping tide. I'm just a frustrated as you are, my friend. I came back to my roots here in Atlantic Highlands to fish the Fall Migration and so far all I've put back in the ocean are short striped bass and a single bluefish.

Discussing the yoy and dreaming for a better year in the future is what my post is about.

The cruddy water your talking about is the run off from the Hudson River after it soaked up two very wet hurricans in its 25,000 sq. mile water shed. The salt line was pushed 40 miles south and down past Sandy Hook. Muddy water, debris and assorted junk. We don't control the weather and Irene and Leigh did us no favors. Get over it. Its getting better. November will be a lot better than the past 5 weeks.