Why are there no fish in Montauk right now?

[finchaser]

RJ
I agree with you and appreciate what you did for what's left of this great country.

The Obama part comes from all the fisheries shut down by Dr. L who was hired by him, (knowing her ties to PEW)these closures add to depletion not accounted for in the equation putting more pressure on the bass.. Most of her staff came from Pew and other tree hunger organizations. I can't stand him either.. I AM NOT POLITICAL SMEARING his already tarnished image and record just stating facts to making sure people who voted for him, know he is not the fisherman's friend. . Just last week the RFA asked Obama to replace her and her staff because they are ruining fishing for everyone trying to implement his fish shares program which practically destroyed fishing in the UK. I can't imagine buying shares to catch and keep fish can you ?
This is part of their master plan. I also go to all the meetings.

[RJC]

Good man, Bob. He's not going to cut the hugger's loose. We need to get a strong ABO vote rolling for November 2012.

Anybody but Obama.

RJ aka Mr. Bob due to my lenthy time on the planet.

[finchaser]

RJ aka Mr. Bob due to my lenthy time on the planet.

RC aka Mr. Bob do to my lenthy time on the planet I know the feeling

[DarkSkies]

Some interesting perspectives here, thanks for all the different viewpoints.


I wanted to break down some definitions for here and other threads,. will add to this post as I get time.....


Endangered -

In Danger-

Declining-


Overfished -

Overfishing-

[RJC]

Add

Not Endangered


Not Over Fished.

Over Abundent

Impacting Major food sources

[mick2360]

Fished the drop on the sand beaches....zippo. Then my BIL, Will, nails a couple od schoolies on the long rod. Hey Will,

[surfstix1963]

Is dead on the beaches I'm having my coffee as I type nice water no fish no bait for that matter.Slow might be a night bite the rips are holding decent fish alot of blues and some nice size bass from a very good source.Sux being here and not fishing maybe I'll start boat fishing again.Whats going on out here 7-11's salivars is closed gonna be Manhattan soon.

[bababooey]

Not Over Fished.

Over Abundent

Impacting Major food sources

Can you explain this then? I don't know the answers, but only fish for them when all you guys out there report the blitzes. Otherwise, when I take my kids out on the boat, we have a better chance of a successful day if we target fluke or bluefish, My .02



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MARCH 24, 2011
PRESS CONTACT, TINA BERGER, 703/842-0740

ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Initiates Addendum to Reduce Fishing Mortality


Alexandria, VA – The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board has initiated development of Draft Addendum III with the goals of reducing striped bass fishing mortality (F) up to 40% and further protecting spawning stock when it is concentrated and vulnerable. The addendum was initiated in order to allow managers to promptly respond to the results of the stock assessment update in the fall if necessary. Provisions of the addendum, if passed, could be implemented prior to the start of the 2012 fishing year.

The Board’s action responds to recent trends in the fishery and resource, including a 66% decline in estimated recreational catch from 2006 to 2009; a 25% decline in estimated striped bass abundance from 2004 to 2008; and lowered recruitment in recent years. Additionally, states in the northern extent of the fishery have expressed concern over decreased availability of striped bass as a result of the diminished water quality in the Chesapeake Bay during the summer months that may also contribute to increased prevalence of mycobacteriosis in striped bass.

Draft Addendum III will propose a range of fishing management measures including, but not limited to, adjustments to commercial and recreational minimum size (for jurisdictions outside Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), reductions in annual coastal commercial allocation, reductions in recreational bag limits, revisions to the target F rate (for Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River), and reductions on fishing for striped bass in known spawning areas during the spawning season by at least 50% (for jurisdictions bordering the Hudson River, Delaware River, Chesapeake Bay and Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River).

The commercial and recreational fishery is currently managed through Amendment 6 to the Striped Bass Fishery Management Plan. The Amendment, passed in 2003, allocates the coastal commercial quota and set a two fish bag limit and a 28 inch size minimum for the recreational fishery, with the exception of the Chesapeake Bay fisheries, Albemarle Sound/Roanoke River fisheries, and states with approved alternative regulations.

The Draft Addendum will be developed for preliminary review by the Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board in August. For more information, please contact Kate Taylor, Fishery Management Plan Coordinator, at ktaylor@asmfc.org or 703.842.0740.

[mick2360]

Is dead on the beaches I'm having my coffee as I type nice water no fish no bait for that matter.Slow might be a night bite the rips are holding decent fish alot of blues and some nice size bass from a very good source.Sux being here and not fishing maybe I'll start boat fishing again.Whats going on out here 7-11's salivars is closed gonna be Manhattan soon.

Surfstix, Beach looked awesome this morning. Damned fish didn't get the memo. Going to keep trying next couple of weekends. Water still seems warm enough to swim in, not that this is any real indicator but I'm hoping a couple of degrees will school 'em up. Lots of guys walking around shaking their heads but saw some positive guys coming in off the night shift.

I have mixed feelings on the 7-11; great for that early am cup of coffee but chains are rarely a good thing.

[DarkSkies]

Mick and Surfstix, hope you get some nice tans while you're up there, not much else happening except the weekend drink specials....and that doesn't do guys like us much good, Mick.

Got a report today that some NJ kayak guys went up there and did poorly. If you can't catch large amounts of fish in a kayak or boat, they just ain't there in numbers....

And if they're not there on Oct 23, with little more than 6 weeks left to the season....where are they?
Canada?

[DarkSkies]

This is also the first really successful year class since 2003, and it comes at a time when most signs have indicated the fishery was in real trouble

This is certainly a positive development for striped bass, and while this boost to the population is something to look forward to, it is also important to consider these points:

2.It will be 8 years before this year class will be 28 inches long and legally available to the coastal fishery. Long before then all but a few remnants of the 2003 year class, which provides most of the current coastal catch, will have died of old age. Current coastal commercial quotas and recreational harvest are clearly excessive considering the gap that exists between the 2003 and 2011 year classes.

Some states, especially those with commercial fisheries, will see this year’s Young of the Year survey as a solid excuse not to reduce fishing mortality on striped bass.

Guys, thanks for the responses on this. I realize everyone who posts in this thread cares abouit striped bass, every single one of ya's.
Although we may not agree on all the points, I feel the point I highlighted above is one of the key ones I wish people would realize. One year does not a fishery make. The fishing at Montauk is the worst it has been in years. Fish are in the Rips and Block Island/Plum Gut/The Race, but the existence of those fish does not "prove" that the numbers are healthy.

Over and over again, it's been drummed into my head that the fish on the edges, beaches, sedges, rivers, and points, are a better indication of the health of the fishery because those are the fish that make up the variation in the statistical spread as it's calculated.

Can you really count 36 million fish?
Absolutely not.

As RJ correctly points out, there has to be some accepted statistical method of assessing the size of the biomass. We have to accept some standards.

I agree, but feel with all of the evidence we have before us, the system of assessing the numbers of these fish is flawed. I would go as far to say that I feel it's broken, but some would argue with that.....

And I'm not looking to argue here, just to understand...

Why veteran anglers who fish 5 days or nights a week can't seem to connect with the fish like they used to...

Why the best of the best in the fishing clubs in NJ and LI have not been able to consistently catch fish at Montauk this fall, even on the night shift?

Why the average size of striped bass reported by Montauk and other adjacent area Capts has been declining... Please... I know about the biigger bass, I read the reports obsessively...but the average size is declining..with the exception of the last few weeks, many charter trips have returned with bass in the teens and low 20's..if these are the only fish they were catching, where are the bigger fish?

Why, with barely 6 weeks left in the fall 2011 fishing season, are we still waiting for the Montauk "fall run" to show some life?






There are too many variables that are melting down to dismal reports this fall.
I'm hoping that folks out there are paying attention....

Some of the early trailblazers and conservationists like the OFFC have bowed out of the politics as they felt it was too tiresome to keep explaining this over and over again.


Finchaser only has limited energy to keep his "rants" up. Someday soon, he may give up the fight as sometime it feels like there are too many conflicting theories out there......All we know is, with or without science to support it, we are collectively catching less fish, and working harder to catch the ones we do....



If this doesn't give anyone reason to think about, then don't claim you tried to help when there are even less bass to catch, as we wait the 8 years for this 2010 class to mature....

[BassBuddah]

Why the average size of striped bass reported by Montauk and other adjacent area Capts has been declining... Please... I know about the biigger bass, I read the reports obsessively...but the average size is declining..with the exception of the last few weeks, many charter trips have returned with bass in the teens and low 20's..if these are the only fish they were catching, where are the bigger fish?

Why, with barely 6 weeks left in the fall 2011 fishing season, are we still waiting for the Montauk "fall run" to show some life?

Well said DS. This is my worst year at Montauk in 15 years. Not only are the fish not around the obvious places like the point, they are thinly distributed, as a friend of mine calls it.
According to my logs, it is less than the 6 weeks you mention, dark, up here we only have about 4 weeks left.
Here is a report from Nov 2010 the montauk Sportfishing site confirming your statement about declining sizes:

November 22, 2010

It’s been a pretty good week, three days without wind.The herring are here, and plentiful right at the mouth of the Inlet, so the first step for most boats is to make a couple of drifts with the Sabikis and load up on them. The next step is to head on down to the Point, look for the birds, and start catching bass, lots of them. No big ones though. Just about everything is 10-12 lbs.... Except for the time just after the herring arrived, November wasn’t all that great.

[RJC]

babaloey - I answered your question in the Hudson River Reprise thread. Darkskies, babaloey's questions answer might have given a reason your pier and river rats are not seeing the numbers there as well. At least in their spring fishing numbers. Check it out.

2003 was a good year for Chessy Bay fish, but 2007 was the largest class year for Hudson River Tribe fish since they began to do the YOY net haul records. 35 fish per haul. The HR average over the years is 14 fpnh compared to the chessy's 4fpnh historical average. The HR contributes less, but it contributes quality fish in high numbers and a productivity level 65% higher than the beat up and abused waters of the Chesapeake Bay. 2015 will ring your chimes with Hudson River fish. The Chessy Bay high you are excited about was only 11 fish per net haul. Those 35 fish per net haul out of NY will rock you in 4 years and continue to fill in the empty spaces till the "good" class year Chessy fish have any impact.

The North of Cape Cod anglers will barely see a bump in their numbers from the 2007 and almost as good 2011 Chessy "good" class years, while everyone south of Race point will enjoy relatively good years, thanks to the Hudson River Tribe in 2015 and beyond. Those Hudson River baby's summer from Race Pt. MA to Cape May, NJ. Wowzaaah!

PS the system is working. See my "reprise" thread.

Mick, we are just starting to connect with fish here on the North End of the NJ Beaches. A friend did a night trip to the rip at SH Sat. night and they boated 33 fat striped bass to 30 pounds. They kept 6. Clams and eels did the trick.

I see M has SW winds again today and tomorrow. Peanut bunker are starting to move out of the Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers.

[fishinmission78]

2015 will ring your chimes with Hudson River fish. The Chessy Bay high you are excited about was only 11 fish per net haul. Those 35 fish per net haul out of NY will rock you in 4 years and continue to fill in the empty spaces till the "good" class year Chessy fish have any impact.

How can you make such rosy predictions for 2015 when the fishing sucks so bad right now? Over the last 2 weeks I watched miles of bunker schools off Lavalette, not even small bluefish were harassing them. One day last week my friends got into fish on the boats, one day out of 15. I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not. Want to sell me a bridge that connects brooklyn and manhattan too?

[jigfreak]

I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not.

Yessir, 2,500,000 of them are hiding behind the 3rd set of rocks furthest from the point. I can't figure out where else they could be either. Certainly not in my neck of the woods.

[RJC]

How can you make such rosy predictions for 2015 when the fishing sucks so bad right now? Over the last 2 weeks I watched miles of bunker schools off Lavalette, not even small bluefish were harassing them. One day last week my friends got into fish on the boats, one day out of 15. I was hoping someone in this thread would say all the bass were hiding behind a big rock at montauk, guess not. Want to sell me a bridge that connects brooklyn and manhattan too?

Ahh! fishinmission. You don't understand the mechanics of YOY Striped Bass collection.

The summer of 2015 the largest birthing of Hudson River strain striped bass in recorded history, will put many more fish at your Lovealott doorstep for the whole spring, summer and fall of 2015.. They will be 8 years old and about 28 inches that summer. The ladies of that class year will have deposited about 250,000 eggs each in the Hudson River in Mid May. This breed of striped bass spends their summers between the southern beaches of Cape Cod and Cape May. At the end of the summer, a large group will stage off of the NJ beaches and filter intothe Hudson River to winter over in the salty lower end at Haverstraw Bay.

Here is a reading assignment for the winter for you. Get the Ocean County library to order you this book. Fly Fishing for Striped Bass by Ric Murphy. It is a $60.00 book. But if you like it, you can probably order it used (ordered but not sold) from Amazon for half that amount.

Your probably not a fly fisherman, but if you want to understand striped bass the first 122 pages will make you an expert in the life and times of this fish. Once you read the first 122 pages. No short cuts or wanderings. (I made that mistake my self. took me a couple of years to realize the mistake I made.) Read the forward, the introduction and then the 122 pages. you will be amazed. You will astonish your family and friends with your knowledge of the finest fish in sight of our coastal environment.

In those pages he touches every second of the life of a striped bass that grows to be 55 pounds and 20 years old. He puts you inside the fish and the magnificent, functioning of its mind, body, vision and scenting. Its birth, migration experience, hunting ability, everything.

When you complete the first 122 pages, I want you to PM me and let me know how you liked it. Don't push it away. You will regret it.

PS The Hudson River has been pumping fresh, muddy water into the ocean for a month. That is slowly being adusted by the tide as we speak. I believe that huge run off even from the 25,000 sq. miles the Hudson River Watershed drains has held up our coastal fishing for at least a month. Irene and Leigh did us no favors. The peanut bunker are starting the exit the back bays. Sharpen your hooks and gird your loins.


PS - You seem to be a lot like me, so let me tell ya its got gonzo photos, diagrams, side bars, and fishing tips it would take you a lifetime to learn.

[mick2360]

Mick and Surfstix, hope you get some nice tans while you're up there, not much else happening except the weekend drink specials....and that doesn't do guys like us much good, Mick.

Got a report today that some NJ kayak guys went up there and did poorly. If you can't catch large amounts of fish in a kayak or boat, they just ain't there in numbers....

And if they're not there on Oct 23, with little more than 6 weeks left to the season....where are they?
Canada?

Yup, one of the yakker's, a nice gentleman from NJ, reported nothing on the northside for Saturday. Said he planned to hit the light area pre dawn as "that's when the fish would be in." Hope he did okay. Things are grim. One fattie was weighed at Paulies. I didn't run over for the details but it was a decent fish.

I'll be back this Friday for the weekend warrior shift. Like Mick Jagger used to sing, "Tiiiiiimmmmeeee is on my side." I have to believe it , Dark. It's all I've got left at this point.

[mick2360]

RJC, First couple of weeks in November are free. I will have done my bit pumping cash into the Montauk economy and will be heading for NJ. As a New Yorker, I am duty bound to do 55 in the passing lane of the GSP on the way down. Let's see if we can get some of the jersey guys out for a tide with us. I hear this guy Darkskies has a nicely outfitted goog bucket.

[RJC]

I haven't met him, eyeball to eyeball yet. But from what i hear and see on this site and via the wonder of cel phones, Darkskies would have fit like a glove with the worm crew at Quonny Pond. We could put him between Mully and the Knight and watch the sparks fly. November eary weekends are good for me.Later I need to hunt ducks and then eat Turkey in the second half.

[fishinmission78]

Ahh! fishinmission. You don't understand the mechanics of YOY Striped Bass collection.

The summer of 2015 the largest birthing of Hudson River strain striped bass in recorded history, will put many more fish at your Lovealott doorstep for the whole spring, summer and fall of 2015.. They will be 8 years old and about 28 inches that summer. :

I am not understanding your rose colored predictions here RJC. Based on one year class? Do bass mature to full size in one year or is this a typo? If one year class is so good, maybe we can get this magical year class to promote world peace and conquer hunger at the same time. I just don't see the logic here. Let's hear about your catches, how many big fish did you catch this year? How many did you catch 5 years ago?
Upper Ocean county is a dead zone right now. One 15lb bass weighed in at B&N yesterday. The occasional small bass, miles of bunker, and the life in the ocean resembles the water after the Exxon Valdez dumped oil.