Stripers & Anglers Education Series: Understanding Spring/ Fall Bass Migration for NJ/NY

[porgy75]

I also had a question about stripers. I am trying to learn so please excuse me if it sounds stupid. I have read about 4 experts online today saying there is a big bunch of bass down in the southern part of nj. I guess that is what the guys in the waiting thread are waiting for? At what point to you know when the stripers are in NJ or somewhere else?

Also a Capt of a Charter boat said that the reason he is not catching now is that stripers haven't spawned yet. Which stripers would those be and how do they fit into the picture. Thanks for any help guys.

[storminsteve]

Very well said dark skies. The migration patterns have changed and the smart folks will recognize it. I enjoy your threads and will try to help you any way that I can. You do have a nice way of putting things into words. It is too much for us older folks to accomplish. Keep up the good work.

Thank you clamchucker have learned so much from your posts over the years.
ds was going over this thread again looking for some clues about what happened to the Spring Run this year and how things were affected by Sandy. Have to say that some of the posts by clamchucker, finchaser, and you are the most detailed and thorough I have seen out there when it comes to the study of stripers and striped bass migration. Thanks for your generosity in sharing your knowledge.

[storminsteve]

Also, this question is directed to any one here who knows - was trying to learn if things Post-Sandy were different this year for striper migration, and if so what your thoughts were on why? Thank you

[robmedina]

I know what you guys are saying and agree. I was actually saying the migratory fish are still around. I figured they would be gone by now. AS for me, I am going to target my friend the dogfish. At least I can make some money off the tagged fish, LOL!

[DarkSkies]

I know what you guys are saying and agree. I was actually saying the migratory fish are still around. I figured they would be gone by now. !

Rob, i have been estimating that 75-80% of the migratory bass have passed us by now.
This knowledge came from Capts and friends who fish for them up and down the Coast, and was developed from dozens of real-time conversations with these folks who fish every day for bass. I want to folks out there reading this to know that I do not claim to be an expert....,

However, I'm good at putting data together, and piecing similar conversations together with these folks, to try and come up with some kind of real consensus, as to where we are at, in different stages in the migration.

Being as accurate as possible is important to me....
It causes me to wince, when less than 2 weeks ago some well-known Capts were saying they were waiting for the bass to be done with the spawn, and they would show up "Any day now"...and then, a few days later, abandoning their striper trips and advertising fluke trips.....

I realize Capts have to fill the boats....they can't be completely candid at all times....but on the other hand...a little honesty goes a long way......some of the Capts I have spoken with regularly have admitted (with the exception of the few great weeks in the Raritan Bay fishery) this is the worst striped bass season ever for them..it saddens me that some aren't willing to admit that publically......

[DarkSkies]

Back to the bass...and the Spring migration........
Based on conversations with folks who fish every day, it seems to some of us, that the bass did not follow normal migration patterns this year.....


1. Some of the big schools that had been so easy to find in the past, were replaced by smaller pods of bass, and smaller pods of bunker....for some reason this is the way things developed in some areas.....

2. It also seemed to some of us, that the bass weren't moving along the Coast, in the same way they had in years past.....again, smaller groups, odd migrational habits, where the bass would linger in one area longer than in the past, while others moved on more quickly, bypassing other areas.

3. Hurricane Sandy....definitely had a play in the way we are seeing some of this migrational shift....as it has changed structure, holes that used to be deep and hold schools of bass for weeks at a time,,,,,sloughs, and many areas of beachfront that used to be more receptive to bass migration....are no longer......Some back bay and river areas, that a lot of us counted on, where bass used to come in and feed, before moving on,,,have been covered by tons of sand, resulting in slow rises back to the level where they can support the smallest marine life.....What has been left has been the clam bed areas. As predicted, bass held in many of those areas for a time, giving guys the opportinity to have some great fishing.



4. Food and Forage....
I am obsessive about looking for and finding different kinds of bait when I am out there..knowing that the more forage I find, the more the likelihood will be of bass staging in certain areas for awhile.....

a. The normal small marine life, grass shrimp, crabs, crustaceans. etc. had its numbers severely diminished by Sandy., and in many areas has only started to come back to levels where you can see them. Despite weeks of looking for grass shrimp at night...I only recently started to see them....this is bad...for everything in the fishing food chain feeds on these shrimp and other small creatures.

When you hear about a back bay bite somewhere, (other than on bunker)...you can assure yourself that for some reason it's because that area has a higher concentration of small forage.

b. Many areas did not have good herring runs this year...The ones that did, were ones where a good bite developed....many of the rest have been barren wastelands....

c. The jetties that I know and love have been barren wastelands as well. and have only recently come to life (I have explained that to some of ya's, but may try to go into more detail when I get a chance...the death, of the most minute life on the jetties this winter...has been fascinating to me. and something I documented every time I was out there....

d. Bait migrational patterns have been different....in many cases the largest amounts of bait (other than bunker) have taken the offshore route, and the fish have followed them......





5. Striped bass numbers.....
Some folks said if only we were to save the bunker the striped bass population would be as strong as ever. What they didn't account for, was we were harvesting more than ever before.....
This has become evident last year, and most evident this year, when we have plenty of bunker, but guys are scratching their heads, asking where the bass are.....




Finchaser has a simple answer......"We killed them all"

Whether folks want to believe that, or not., this is the first year in a declining few, where people are publically starting to question if there are as many bass, as some claim there are.....
You have good fishermen going out every day, with decades of experience, and many are not finding bass. other than in the middle of (some) bunker pods...
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but any discussion of striped bass migration must take this possibility of declining numbers into account...

[SharkHart]

Traditionally the big bass run make their last stand off Monmoth beach and inside area of Shrewberry rocks and often are thin there when the run is in full effect IBSP to Long Branch. Well right now that was their last known position. I had have to guess few skirmishes or random small pods here on out.

Even though I did well with nicer fish this year it was all in super spots, no random pop ups which should happen, didnt even hear of any like that.

[DarkSkies]

Even though I did well with nicer fish this year it was all in super spots, no random pop ups which should happen, didnt even hear of any like that.

I know you keep extensive logs, Shark, try to be where the bass show up every year, because of it, and spend a lot of time on the water..

I appreciate your opinion about the bass being concentrated in certain spots/areas...there have been some cases where if you are off a mile or 2 when looking for them, you will not see anything happen at all.....and this is what worries me most.

1. no consistency,
2. the lack of activity along a whole area when a beach finally turns productive......


** Some have talked about the bass being all offshore this year.....
When you are counting bass that allegedly number in the millions, and not seeing anything inshore...this also speaks poorly of the general health of the fishery. In years past the guys fishing from land could count on at least a few, fishing that way, as those bass were part of the overflow, indicating a healthy biomass....

With the lack of fish along our shorelines,. or being concentrated in only a few areas....A few streets at a time, or one inlet one week, another inlet the next week, is a troubling indication of the poor health of the fishery....there are too many spots in between where there are no fish at all...thanks for your perspective.....

[DarkSkies]

The positive side to all this., Rob, is even though a majority of fish are in the Rhody/MA/Montauk triangle now....there is still enough of an uncertainty, that you, or I could find few bass at the beach, on any given night, as long as these ocean temps hold around 60 degrees. IMO these ocean temps are slightly lower for this time of year.








IF bait moves in, in certain areas, we could have a bite till the end of June in those areas. The disappointing part of my experience, is that when bait starts to fill in in a certain area, and I find it...by the next night it is usually gone......


Thanks for noticing the things you do,,,Rob....paying attention like you do, will make you a better fisherman in the long run....

[porgy75]

I know what you guys are saying and agree. I was actually saying the migratory fish are still around. I figured they would be gone by now. AS for me, I am going to target my friend the dogfish. At least I can make some money off the tagged fish, LOL!

Hey I am glad to hear that too. dark and sharkheart you have to give us guys some hope! Without that there is nothing. rob what do you mean by making money off tagged fish. They give you money for reporting dogfish tags? Get outta town!

[buckethead]

Back to the bass...and the Spring migration........
Based on conversations with folks who fish every day, it seems to some of us, that the bass did not follow normal migration patterns this year.....

I am obsessive about looking for and finding different kinds of bait when I am out there..knowing that the more forage I find, the more the likelihood will be of bass staging in certain areas for awhile.....

a. The normal small marine life, grass shrimp, crabs, crustaceans. etc. had its numbers severely diminished by Sandy., and in many areas has only started to come back to levels where you can see them. Despite weeks of looking for grass shrimp at night...I only recently started to see them....this is bad...for everything in the fishing food chain feeds on these shrimp and other small creatures.

When you hear about a back bay bite somewhere, (other than on bunker)...you can assure yourself that for some reason it's because that area has a higher concentration of small forage.

b. Many areas did not have good herring runs this year...The ones that did, were ones where a good bite developed....many of the rest have been barren wastelands....

c. The jetties that I know and love have been barren wastelands as well. and have only recently come to life (I have explained that to some of ya's, but may try to go into more detail when I get a chance...the death, of the most minute life on the jetties this winter...has been fascinating to me. and something I documented every time I was out there....



d. Bait migrational patterns have been different....in many cases the largest amounts of bait (other than bunker) have taken the offshore route, and the fish have followed them......





5. Striped bass numbers.....
Some folks said if only we were to save the bunker the striped bass population would be as strong as ever. What they didn't account for, was we were harvesting more than ever before.....
This has become evident last year, and most evident this year, when we have plenty of bunker, but guys are scratching their heads, asking where the bass are.....




Finchaser has a simple answer......"We killed them all"

Whether folks want to believe that, or not., this is the first year in a declining few, where people are publically starting to question if there are as many bass, as some claim there are.....
You have good fishermen going out every day, with decades of experience, and many are not finding bass. other than in the middle of (some) bunker pods...
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but any discussion of striped bass migration must take this possibility of declining numbers into account...

Yes, could not agree more with these 2 points.

[BassBuddah]

Back to the bass...and the Spring migration........
Based on conversations with folks who fish every day, it seems to some of us, that the bass did not follow normal migration patterns this year.....



3. Hurricane Sandy....definitely had a play in the way we are seeing some of this migrational shift....as it has changed structure, holes that used to be deep and hold schools of bass for weeks at a time,,,,,sloughs, and many areas of beachfront that used to be more receptive to bass migration....are no longer......Some back bay and river areas, that a lot of us counted on, where bass used to come in and feed, before moving on,,,have been covered by tons of sand, resulting in slow rises back to the level where they can support the smallest marine life.....What has been left has been the clam bed areas. As predicted, bass held in many of those areas for a time, giving guys the opportinity to have some great fishing.



4. Food and Forage....
I am obsessive about looking for and finding different kinds of bait when I am out there..knowing that the more forage I find, the more the likelihood will be of bass staging in certain areas for awhile.....

a. The normal small marine life, grass shrimp, crabs, crustaceans. etc. had its numbers severely diminished by Sandy., and in many areas has only started to come back to levels where you can see them. Despite weeks of looking for grass shrimp at night...I only recently started to see them....this is bad...for everything in the fishing food chain feeds on these shrimp and other small creatures.

When you hear about a back bay bite somewhere, (other than on bunker)...you can assure yourself that for some reason it's because that area has a higher concentration of small forage.

Finchaser has a simple answer......"We killed them all"

Whether folks want to believe that, or not., this is the first year in a declining few, where people are publically starting to question if there are as many bass, as some claim there are.....
You have good fishermen going out every day, with decades of experience, and many are not finding bass. other than in the middle of (some) bunker pods...
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but any discussion of striped bass migration must take this possibility of declining numbers into account...

Dark, a capt fishing out of Moriches echoed the same comments you made last month about the spearing and lack of small forage:
Capt Tom Cornicelli
" I'm not quite certain whats going on in regard to an area that has always be well known for holding big bass and normally a strong bite, Something to also consider, local spearing a main foraging base for all bay fish aren't here like they should be ? ."


I think the statements you made are right on point. I am noticing less whitebait this year as well. Went to Montauk last week and fishing was poor. Managed a few small bass and one 10#. I have been making this trip the same time every year for 20 years and never fail to catch bass in the 20# class from the surf. This is the first year I did not achieve that. There was a distinct lack of whitebait.
As you and the others here have stated time and time again, the bass numbers are down as well.

[storminsteve]

I learn something new every time I check this thread. Thanks fellas!

[DarkSkies]

Raritan Bay and NY Bight, including RB estuaries (Raritan River/ Hackensack River system, Arthur Kill, Staten Island) Spring 2014 -
(March - July)


I know this area better than many of the other areas I have fished, simply because I grew up fishing these places as they were closer. At different times I have probably walked and sunk, in most creeks and mud bogs in that area trapping killies and digging for tape and other worms. I would be embarassed to report the number of shoes I have lost wading around out there in the muck, and close calls I had when I couldn't get out of the mud.....
I have been fishing that area aggressively and consistently for the last 25 years......from boat, kayak, and land......

There are others who have more experience than me, and I defer to them when I need to learn more...such as the old timers who sparked my interest with numerous examples of bass spawning in the Raritan river decades ago.......




The Assessment Spring 2014:
(Note, the observations below are generalizations based on my experience, observations, and interviews with hundreds of anglers)
There is always a case where someone's experience doesn't fit what generally happens. Not looking to argue with anyone here....just looking to educate and raise awareness.....of what most seasoned anglers are (generally) seeing......


1. Later start - Later start to season because of colder Winter. This harsh winter probably damaged a lot of the early season forage population, but not as bad as 2013, when forage damage from Sandy was more marked and severe. I believe in 2013, grass shrimp didn't show up in many places until June. As of this date in 2014, there are very few grass shrimp and spearing in the usual places. They are there in the shallowest estuaries, but many of the other places are barren.

2. Dirty Water Bass - The early season is traditionally marked by anglers catching resident fish, which winter over in the Arthur Kill and other deep water ports of the lower Hudson river. You can ID these fish because they (usually) have a darker color and look "muddy" at times....hence the name "dirty water bass" and other names they have been called.
Every year, these bass are (generally) caught first by land anglers as the fish wake up from lethargy and start to roam the shallow water flats. These fish are available by the thousands.

In 2014, the numbers caught in this area, were only in the hundreds...
Boat anglers and others didn't start catching bigger fish regularly until April 17, 2014...
If the bass are so healthy, Where were these resident bass that are there every year?


3. Shallow water - Anglers usually start catching these (early) resident fish as the mud flats on the southern side of the bay heats up, near clam beds where the worms become active. For most years that (generally) means that the Southern side of the bay heats up first. The Staten Island and northern areas are generally closer to channels and deeper water, which (generally) means the bite turns on later in that deeper and colder water.




4. Find bait and find fish - any of the above general observations can be negated by large quantities of bait. In the spring it's usually large pods of bunker. To this day it amazes me that so few have an understanding of the bunker, or how they behave, other than asking others where to find them. When you begin to understand them better, you begin to see how it's all inter-related. We had an unusually warm winter back in 2011 when bunker were in some of the bays and harbors in February. Generally, they don't migrate from the south that early, but by March and April you can find them if you are willing to move around and look.

Generally, they come in with the flood tide, and leave with the ebb. The bunker you see are migrating as well. The ones you see today might not be the same ones you saw yesterday. Bunker also sometimes sit in deeper water in the channels and marinas, and only rise to feed when conditions are optimal.

I am amazed at the amount of times I'm out there crossing the channels in a kayak, and the bunker are just beginning to rise to the surface (boat traffic can also put them down). A Captain will blow right by me with binocs, looking for bunker, not realizing he just passed by the mother lode when he crossed that channel.

As mentioned, bass will follow large schools of bunker. If there are only a few big bass under them you might never know those bass are there. Hence the complaint from many who go out for a day of fishing "Well we saw all these bunker pods but nothing under them, very frustrating"

** A. Also, if there is an exceptionally large body of bunker, fish will follow them anyway, and the previous observations don't always apply, because the action is then dominated by the bunker.
B. When a large body of bunker leaves an area for the night, it tends to draw out most of the fish with it. Another frustration experienced by Capts and all fishermen. Understanding this, and fish behavior, is key to predicting where they could be the next day (Hint - bunker usually feed into the wind)

[DarkSkies]

5. Structural changes and fish location changes - this is so important I decided to put it by itself. Many folks out there are resistant to this logic, instead falsely using it as being the reason for "seeing the most bass I have ever seen!"
Hint - the bass are now more concentrated, in a lesser # of areas.


Why?
A. Sandy's storm devastated some bay estuaries. Some shoreline and creek areas still have not recovered and are devoid of life.
B. Many creeks that used to hold small forage and had clam beds a short distance from the mouth now have these clam beds covered by silt, which has greatly decreased the worm and clam beds in the bay.

C. Old Orchard Lighthouse and Sandy destruction - This was a significant event. If you are a seasoned fisherman or Capt you know why. The destruction of the lighthouse immediately distributed those rocks throughout the area, increasing the surface area and structure by up to 300%.
This area was traditionally known by most Capts to hold fish, and the bigger fish that came into the bay.
The old pattern was that, for weeks at a time after the spawn., bass would come down the Hudson, and sit and feed at old orchard before moving on. Sometimes they were there for weeks at a time. Many of the bigger fish above 30# came from this general area.

Since Sandy, this area has become prime hunting ground for bigger bass.

The pattern has shifted to one where they now show up, Before, and After, the spawn.
They are not always there, and no one is guaranteed a fish....but if you know and understand fish behavior, you would see that with the decreased % of other areas that have traditionally held fish....this Old Orchard area would
rise to the forefront.....more crabs, sea bass, black fish, and other forage fish than ever before....divers will confirm this.....the area is loaded with bait for most of the year.....


**And...it is part of the pattern that has changed and allows some mis-informed folks, to think there are more bass, when closer observation reveals that not to be true.....

















If you only fish from a boat, you know the names of usual places that hold bass and other fish in Raritan Bay....
* Flynns knoll and Romer shoals (clam beds)
* Old Orchard (up to 300% in structure area since lighthouse was destroyed)
* Round Shoal, and the entrance area to the Arthur Kill
* Mount Loretto and the shipping channels that graze the SI shoreline there
* Great Kills Harbor and the bass waiting a short ride outside.....(and sometimes in the harbor itself)
* Navy Pier to Keyport / the Belford clam beds and other clam beds in that area (The Navy pier will often hold fish when they are scarce in other areas. The channels are the gateway into the bay for migrating fish....the clam beds in that area can be confirmed by a conversation with any commercial clammer.)


There are a few more...but my point is this....a good Capt knows when these areas are most productive, and why...
Anyone who wants fish from a boat, you know the names of usual places that hold bass and other fish in Raritan Bay....
A good Capt, if they concentrated on those areas mentioned above, and fish are in the bay area....would most likely catch one, if they really worked the above areas thoroughly....
Someone who claims there are more bass than ever before, without recognizing the changes mentioned..... is either:
ignorant, arrogantly in denial, or has a hidden financial incentive to mis-represent the status of the bass #s to folks out there.



To Recap, for the RB/ NY Bight area (generally speaking)

1. Less shoreline structure and feeding area since Sandy
2. Higher concentration of the same fish in the areas that do hold food, with some becoming more prominent than before.
3. Offshore migration theories hold no water here, as fish must enter the bays in similar ways every year and travel the same routes to spawn.
4. Notably less quantities of larger fish. (the 20# bass has become the new "Large" Bass)
5. Significant gaps in year classes of other sized fish.

[DarkSkies]

There is so much mis-information out there I had to respond to someone yesterday and thought I would share.....

First of all...
"The water temp is too warm for the bass run to start"
"We are waiting for the fish from up North"
"We need a noreaster to spark up the action"
"The run in NJ hasn't even started yet, we have time"
"They are just a little late this year"

The above excuses/reasons were not valid 8 years ago, because there were more bass. In my experience, what we are seeing is
1. larger concentrations or pushes of bass,
2. with not a lot in between....
3. Similar conditions that existed before the Moratorium in the 80's.

I had this conversation the other night with a Monmouth County police officer, friend of mine, while I was out fishing, and he stopped me to see if I had any intel for him.......
I like this guy, he is a good and avid fisherman.......but he insisted that the bass were still "North of us, they just didn't get here yet".....

I felt that if he had this perception.....that others might have the same mis-perceptions as well.....










Below is a generalized response I gave to someone who was in Belmar Sunday, and said because he saw no fish being caught....that the fish hadn't arrived yet in Jersey...

[DarkSkies]

1. NJ got it's first wave of migratory fish (around) Oct 3
...... 20-40lb bass. Quite a few were caught but many guys were unaware of the bite because the storms and bad weather prevented a lot of boats from getting out.
This was a large body of fish. There are some fish all the way down in Delaware now, and entering the Delaware bay, that came from the North .

2. This weekend we enjoyed another wave with surf caught bass to 32#.

3. Realistically speaking, the "run" is about half over.

4. Today there was another bass slaughter along NJ inshore waters...by tomorrow it should be reported on all the major web sites....
The sad thing to me, about some NJ Capts...is we are allowed to keep 3 bass per man....because of bonus tags.....and some Capts promote their businesses this way.......While the bass numbers have been steadily declining....

5. Fish as much as you can, we are right in the midst of the fall run of migratory fish.
Good luck, and hope you don't take my advice the wrong way, or as offensve, because that is not the way I mean.

6. As for the Chesapeake/Delaware Vs Hudson fish argument, sometimes it's hard to tell as these 2 strains mix together during the migratory period......

7. Again, the fish we have now, and had 3 weeks ago, did not primarily come from the Hudson/NY Bight...they came from North of you....there was a limited bite of big fish at the old Romer shoals and some HR channels areas this summer....These were limited quantities that stayed behind in part because of the abundant bait....









** Just wanted to state that Finchaser mentioned this as well....if someone can find his comments and post them here....I would appreciate it....Thanks for reading.....

[finchaser]

Was an all out slaughter today(10/27/14) all the head boats found them 1/2 to 1 mile off on the way in at 2pm with in an hour everyone on all boats limited out with 3 fish between 20 and 44 pounds. My friends on private boats caught them on jigs also as fast as you could reel them in they were all released.

This could be the grand finale as Montauk, block Island and Rhode Island are dead

[surfrob]

the fish that went by up North came and went by us here in dixie, for the most part, with a few rogue fish that poked their noses in the inlets.

for every fish caught by boat around brigantine and absecon islands, there were probably 20 anglers or more who caught nothing, one fellow side by side a boat that brought up a 30+ fish.

there are a few residents and some smaller migrators in the back along the sods.

[stormchaser]

the fish that went by up North came and went by us here in dixie, for the most part, with a few rogue fish that poked their noses in the inlets.

We had the same thing happen in great south bay. Every year they make a stop to feed inside for a few weeks. This year it's been like your local pond that overfilled with weeds and chokes the fish. Weeds weeds and more weeds. Great thread very helpful, thanks.