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Thread: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

  1. #1
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    Default Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    I'm trying to keep the tone here positive, but there are some things that bear discussing......

    The beach access in Monmouth and Ocean counties, will never be the same.(Cape May and Atlantic Counties may be affected as well, but IMO they were not hit as hard therefore access may not be as affected there, JMO)

    I know some may think that's a pretty strong statement, and may disagree.
    They point to the Public Trust Doctrine
    http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...trust+doctrine

    as I have, on occasion, and may infer that the recent DEP rulings which delineate how access must be dealt with, are sufficient to represent the fishermen.

    It's my strong feeling that although billions in federal dollars will be used to replenish the beaches, somehow fishermen will not have the same access that they had before.


    This also goes for Long Island, Brooklyn, And Staten Island.

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    In this thread I'm referring to Public Access to beaches, rivers, or bayshore areas, which Includes the public state, federal parks....Also the myriad local parks which have allowed us access.....
    And Residential Access......the areas in front of or adjacent to Residential areas that fishermen have enjoyed and used for decades......


    Which areas do you personally think will be most affected, and why?
    I'll come back in here when I can, thanks for your opinions.....

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    Mantolokin, Bay head and Ortley will take many years to rebuild myself and others were saying there are many places we will probably never fish again in our life times. many places where access was granted will vanish for ever in the above mentioned area . Many area's will be buried by sand as everyone will seek beach replenishment all of these could esculate the end of the surfcaster.

    Pay attention to what history has taught us or be prepared to relive it again

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    The noose already started closing in. fisherman reported getting a ticket for trespassing in Deal yesterday.

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    We're all going to have to get kayaks once stuff gets built up again. No more access is what I think will happen,

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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    It goes without saying that some fishermen are very generous, giving, and compassionate.
    These are the ones who have stood up to help others.







    However, we continue to be plagued, as a group, by bad apples who are selfish and inconsiderate of others......

    *The ones who go to the beach, fishing bait, and leave their containers there instead of bringing them home or walking the extra 300' to a trash can.

    * The ones who go fishing and drink while they do, leaving empty bottles piled up near the trash cans
    Note, when I did research for the Brookhaven/Shoreham historic test case, (post #13)
    http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ham+beach+pics

    I found out that mostly the people who did this were the local teens, who don't fish but come down to the beaches to hang out, so please understand my comments in this context



    * The ones who feel it is their right, as protected by the Public Trust Doctrine, to fish any beach they please.

    * The ones who feel it is their right to cross "No trespassing" Zones that are clearly marked.
    (Note - I realize there is some ambiguity with these areas now that Sandy has hit... there are many areas that have barriers, but no clear signs........)

    * The ones who feel it is OK to urinate on private property......

    * Or take a dump on beach club property....
    (Note, this happened again at the Allenhurst Beach Club Cabanas...shortly after the hurricane....the only people down at those beaches at that early time were homeowners and fishermen)

    * The ones who feel it is OK to tresspass into Private property, use the Priests' bathroom, and then argue with the priest when caught
    (Note, this happened to St Alphonse Retreat sometime around 2009, and fishermen have been banned from their parking lot since then)

    * The ones who feel it is ok to dump their coffee cups, or soda/energy drink cans, on the rocks when they are fishing because they don't feel like carrying them to the trash can.

    * And the ones who leave jetties littered with braid, terminal tackle, and other fishermen garbage instead of putting it in their pockets and taking it home with them.

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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    I know the "bad apples" are in the minority, but unfortunately they make it bad for all of us.....

    Because their behavior is what we are all judged by...
    And all of the above, have been committed by fishermen in NJ, when fishing near private property.



    And yes, the Public Trust Doctrine does protect fishermen and beach goers, to some extent.
    (do a search here on Public Trust to find scores of threads and case histories)

    But there are all sorts of ways around that.....

    *Parking restictions...
    no parking, no night parking, restricted hours parking, parking by town permit only, seasonal parking restrictions

    *Night fishing permits.

    * No fishing signs

    * No trespassing on jetties or inlets at night signs

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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    ** Remember in reality, the biggest offenders are not likely to read threads like this.
    However, lots of folks blame this on specific ethnic or racial groups.......

    And this is just not the case......
    I've come upon, and been made aware of....groups of "Van Stall and Abercrombie & Fitch" surf guys, all wearing the latest in top clothing, thousands invested in their gear, who can't be bothered to throw a freaking coffee cup in the garbage......


    These are the guys who are likely to be on the internet...
    And instead of blaming the immigrants, it is they who should take the blame, and pick up after themselves.......

    And it is we, the rest of the fishermen, who should be on their cases, chastizing them into doing so.
    Not speaking up, runs the risk of ruining it for us all.......Now more than ever....


    Any other opinions or stories, feel free.....

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    I copied the above 3 posts from another thread here because they paint a picture of what can and could happen to beach access in NJ as the rebuilding begins.

    The safety issue is also rising to the top.
    IMO it is one factor that will be used time and time again, to deny access.

    People should be careful out there. The access is limited to a few sandy beaches. In other areas, the access is extremely dangerous. Many stairways and previous access points are missing. There are places where you would need to climb down on loose rubble about 10-15' to get to the water.

    All we need is one fisherman to hurt himself, find an opportunistic lawyer, and sue the town for not protecting him.....to further close the noose of limited beach access.

    Remember that, any of the folks out there who are mad at the police, for doing their jobs.
    Any other opinions, feel free to post.
    Thanks for the responses so far.

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    Any of you who are ranting should come to Connecticut. Our family went to Wildwood NJ this summer and was amazed by the beach access you enjoy. And free! We saw surf fishermen fishing in some areas. I think it is good that they have bathing only and fishing only areas. You have to pay for beach access in Ct and it's not cheap either. If any one ever feels cheated on NJ beach or fishing access, come to Ct and see for yourself how great you all have it down there.

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    Thanks for the perspective Albie. I have been up there several times and my heart sinks when I see all those no access and private property signs you folks have to deal with.

    That's one of the reasons I value access in NJ so highly. I am pretty passionate about it and some guys I meet on the beach might think I'm a bit deranged when I hassle them for littering or doing something stupid. I won't change that part of who I am as I need to be at the beach as part of my therapy.

    Seriously, I have now come to understand both sides. I will no longer fight for the ignorant and selfish fishermen, though I will still be involved in Fishermens Rights and Access Campaigns.......

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    This just in......

    Fin was doing a lot of scouting today......these observations thanks to his efforts.....

    The National Guard is stepping up their presence.
    Looting is still a problem and some posing as fishermen are suspected, among other suspects.

    Belmar is locked down tight.
    There may be some inlet access in some areas but that may not last long as local police chiefs, to deal with looting and giving priority to construction and rebuilding, are further locking down areas perceived to be at risk.

    Spring Lake, Sea Girt, and Manasquan all have various restrictions despite what people are reporting on the internet. Sea Bright, Deal, Ocean Grove, as well.
    Same for most of the North Jersey inlet areas.

    Monmouth Beach and Long Branch have limited access on the sand beaches. Remember that even for some sand beaches there are places where it is a 4' drop to the sand,
    I would advise the smart fishermen, to not park anywhere near valuable construction equipment or temporary fences or barriers are.
    You don't even want the suspicion of them thinking you are a looter.


    South of Barnegat Inlet, is much more accessible, and less risky.
    As mentioned, LBI is open and encouraging fishing and people to spend money on the island at the few businesses that have opened.
    Even that has restrictions, the North End of LBI is the less restricted part, homeowner access only on the south end.






    **But as for Monmouth and Ocean counties, proceed with caution.
    Realize that the officers are only following commands.
    I have several friends in LE. They have described the environments as Quasi-military.
    Those that don't obey orders, could lose their jobs.

    So please, no criticisms of how the cops "hassled someone"....there are still bad things going on, and they mean to clamp down on that.
    Again, we are all put at risk because of the selfish acts of a few......


    Be careful, be safe. and do not put yourself in a position where you are fishing restricted access......

    A guy we know was escorted off a Bay Head Beach by the National Guard this morning.....

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    Be careful, be safe. and do not put yourself in a position where you are fishing restricted access......

    A guy we know was escorted off a Bay Head Beach by the National Guard this morning.....

    I am wondering what happens when they put it all back together like pieces of the puzzle. I think we will have to take what ever is offered to us.

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    Default Re: Sandy...Aftermath.....Future of Beach Access.......

    I'm afraid that restrictions on beach access will only get worse in the future, especially after Sandy. But with the beach replenishments, restricted parking areas, building improvements along the coast, and each town setting up their own rules and fines, I don't see the authorities giving us a free reign. I know we have a right to be there, but they, the towns, can make it rough. I hope I'm wrong, but some places would like to see us banned from walking their (OUR) beaches forever.

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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkies View Post
    * The ones who feel it is their right, as protected by the Public Trust Doctrine, to fish any beach they please.

    * The ones who feel it is their right to cross "No trespassing" Zones that are clearly marked.
    (Note - I realize there is some ambiguity with these areas now that Sandy has hit... there are many areas that have barriers, but no clear signs........)

    * The ones who feel it is OK to urinate on private property......

    * Or take a dump on beach club property....
    (Note, this happened again at the Allenhurst Beach Club Cabanas...shortly after the hurricane....the only people down at those beaches at that early time were homeowners and fishermen)

    * And the ones who leave jetties littered with braid, terminal tackle, and other fishermen garbage instead of putting it in their pockets and taking it home with them.

    Great points, Surfwalker, thanks for your perspective....

    My response in the Deal Access thread.....
    There are some there and in the border areas of Long Branch that still don't welcome fishermen, but it's understandable now that I hear it from both sides.
    The recent incident where someone took a dump by the cabanas at Allenhurst, the disrespectful behavior of a small few each spring parking in a frenzy when the fish come in...

    I completely sympathize with homeowners who don't want us there....and their reasons for feeling that way.

    With each incident of selfishness or careless disprespect, it becomes harder and harder for me to unilaterally support the rights of all fishermen to fish these areas. We are our own worst enemies sometimes. Additionally, when we lose access, we do not have the collective committment to have a massive gathering and protest, like Finchaser and some of the fishing clubs did in the 70's.




    Or threaten a lawsuit, like a good friend who hooked up with Surfrider threatened the towns of Loch Arbor and Long Branch with to gain access for surfers.
    I believe that was in the 80's.

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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    There have been some new develoments since the beginning of this thread.
    Although the county wide restrictions were lifted. it's up to each individual town to decide access restrictions, and some have further tightened access.

    Many are familiar with the fisherman who was given a ticket in Deal for trespassing beyond the orange fencing.
    I have since gotten calls that additional fishermen were ticketed for tresspasing there. Some who were only there for a few minutes got ticketed anyway.

    The court appearance is mandatory.

    The reason I was given is that the Chief is irritated that people are blatantly disregarding the orange fencing. In some cases they have tossed it from where it is to the rocks below.

    Town public works workers have had to go back and replace it.
    The feeling is, among higher ups, that these actions were likely done by fishermen.
    Therefore there is now a zero tolerance policy.

    I know some feel this is not fair, but as I said previously it is not a Public Trust Doctrine issue.
    It is a safety issue, and from what I gathered from the phone conversations I had, it is an issue of disrespect. They are really irritated that a few fishermen would do that.

    If you have been near that area you would notice that the orange fencing prohibits access from areas where there is a 10-15 drop to the beach. Climbing down the unstable rocks could result in someone getting hurt.

    There is also looting still prevalent among many beach areas. There are some houses that got ripped up. Access to the beach in some areas would give you theoretical access to those houses.
    Folks need to understand that.

    Also, that any time the towns want to in the future, they can restrict access under the guise of it being a safety issue.
    This may become a bigger problem than most fishermen think. I am putting it out there as food for thought.



    ** Anyone who predicted that some access spots will be "forgotten" is very accurate in their thinking.

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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    I have had friends escorted off the beach in Belmar and Spring Lake. Also one in Bayhead who sneak past the National guard. The Belmar beaches are closed for the next 3 months for construction as will Spring Lake. In many towns surf fisherman are despised do to the new breed of slobs who have no respect for other peoples property.
    Some of the docks I have fished for years are now off limits since surveillance cameras filmed people from Mehico shiti_g in the sterns of peoples boats and cutting clams on tiop of dock boxes.

    Pay attention to what history has taught us or be prepared to relive it again

  18. #18
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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    There is a lack of respect both in and out of the fishing community. Different world out there now. Me first, me casting in front of you in the bunker blitzes., me cutting in front of you on the jetty or as the blitzing fish move up or down the beach. Of course I dont mean myself, just an example. it's me me me first, and then think about the other guy 2nd. Sorry for the rant, that's why I like to fish at night.
    All they have to do is put up more parking signs like they did on Pullman.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    Stand up for yourselves and fight anyone who tries to take access away. Don't we have a right to do that? I saw the public trust mentioned. There was a guy on another site. He went fishing and a guy who owned property near the beach told him he wasn't allowed. He asked the owner to call police and try to give him a ticket. When the police came he told the cops he was allowed to fish there. They told the owner he was and the guy went back into his house fuming. Why can't we all do something like that and stage a mass protest?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: What Kind of Fisherman are You?

    After Sandy many towns down here don't even know where the streets were never mind the beach access spots,this is going to suck big time for a long time to come.Many places we fished, we will proably nerver fish again.

    Pay attention to what history has taught us or be prepared to relive it again

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