Dark Skies Conservation Corner

[finchaser]

From finchaser answering Leadheads comment

Thanks leadhead I follow years of patterns I've logged and put in lots of hours. It was a slow year for bass compared to other years well under my yearly average .Remember I fish mostly everyday when conditions are right and only report catches. Been at this close to 50 years started when limit was 10 fish at 18 inches and seen it all never thought I'd see a decline as fast as this especially with this YOY average at .89 losest ever.

[DarkSkies]

Been at this close to 50 years

started when limit was 10 fish at 18 inches

and seen it all

never thought I'd see a decline as fast as this

especially with this YOY average at .89 lowest ever.

Fin and I were talking about this......and we knew it was time for another thread.....
(I can imagine as many of you are reading this, you are simultaneously rolling your eyes.......and thinking "No, not again! When is he gonna get off this bandwagon....I'm sick of hearing it....all this Negativity! Sick of hearing it and I don't want to listen anymore! ")



If that's the way you feel, fine, but I would like to remind the skeptics out there...that those who do not remember the sins of the past, are doomed to repeat them........

[Monty]

Fin and I were talking about this......and we knew it was time for another thread.....
(I can imagine as many of you are reading this, you are simultaneously rolling your eyes.......and thinking [B]"No, not again! When is he gonna get off this bandwagon....I'm sick of hearing it....all this Negativity!

I'm not sick of hearing it. I am frustrated that very little is being done to address this.
What is being done? Some people have limited their kill to very few if any Stripers. Some people have limited the size of their kill "not killing the big girls".
What else is being done?
What percentage of people who fish for Stripers do you think actually care about this?

Like buckethead posted, guys like mentioned here don't care one bit.

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...r-Fun-or-Glory

[DarkSkies]

What percentage of people who fish for Stripers do you think actually care about this?

I agree with ya, Monty....and it saddens me......
I try to raise awareness as best I can....and over the years have noticed there are now more trying to raise awareness......

Overall, though, there are more folks that don't care, than do care......
A big issue is trying to get through to guys who only fish from boats......to them they may not be seeing any differences as they can morv around to find the middle of a group of fish..........

I had to come terms with this recently as I developed friendships with some charter capts who also say they care about conservation....
Yet.....
In our conversations I began to realize that we had different perspectives as we fish different zones........

[jigfreak]

I
A big issue is trying to get through to guys who only fish from boats......

I think total numbers show that boat guys catch about 94% of all bass and surf guys catch the other 6% if you are looking at the breakdown of all rec catches. So why not go after the ones that do the most damage?

[jonthepain]

and therein lies the rub

[DarkSkies]

I think total numbers show that boat guys catch about 94% of all bass and surf guys catch the other 6% if you are looking at the breakdown of all rec catches. So why not go after the ones that do the most damage?

Jigfreak, I agree and your stats are right on when you are talking about the breakdown among recreational anglers.

Let's assume there is some error in there, and say that surf anglers catch about 20% of the bass.(even though that is a large overstatement)
That means that 80% or more, of striped bass are harvested by anglers other than surf anglers.

Reaching that group has been a problem.
I'm registered on most of the popular saltwater sites out there and try to promote discussion on this every winter. For some years it has been tough, as a lot of the guys, as mentioned, don't want to hear it.

However, recently some well-known Capts have voiced their opinions that the rate we are harvesting, is greater than the reproduction rate.
This cannot continue without a decline.







*******
For the last 5-8 years, some others and I have seen a decline in our logs of fish caught, and tried to pay more attention to why. The best answer we can come up with (among many possibilities) is that there is a decline in the biomass.

[DarkSkies]

So, long-term, the goal is to educate folks, without apprearing to be self-rightous.......a delicate walk of diplomacy and choosing your words carefully.....

And trying to consolidate and identify the others out there who have a long term perspective and have real concerns for the future of the bass,.....hoping that these folks can energize the others, if not by words, by example......

[DarkSkies]

This is a recent number for the Chesapeake YOY....
Other numbers for the Hudson and Delaware stocks may be different........

The significance, is that this stat is 90% less than when the YOY showing was at it's highest.

Yes you read those figures right, folks.....90% less.......


for those of ya's who are or ....we'll try to come back in this thread, and explain why these numbers are alarming, and historically significant.....


As some of ya's can see, I don't have as much time for these threads as I used to....so if anyone, can find ANY info on this stat, and ANYTHING related to this topic of Conservation.....Fin, the Old Farts out there, Old Salts, and others, and I. would be most grateful.........


If you don't understand or disagree with these stats as they relate to the striped bass population....feel free to bring that up as well...and we'll try our best to answer these questions, by sharing what those who fish every day....are seeing......














I know many think of these types of threads as less interesting....but you can read about what is happpening now......
Or take up golf, if it becomes necessary to institute another Striped Bass Moratorium........

And with the YOY Chesapeake stats that low....that's the direction this is heading.......




Thanks for reading, folks......

[storminsteve]

90% that is so hard to understand. I had no idea that number would be so off. Ithink it was last year or 2011 they were saying the Hudson or Chesapeake year of the young numbers were good. I think finchaser or someone else pointed out that although one year might be good it would take 8 years for those small fry to fully mature.

[finchaser]

there are full charts to back all this up in thismonths Saltwater Sportsman magazine

[DarkSkies]

From finchaser answering Leadheads comment

Thanks leadhead I follow years of patterns I've logged and put in lots of hours. It was a slow year for bass compared to other years well under my yearly average .Remember I fish mostly everyday when conditions are right and only report catches. Been at this close to 50 years started when limit was 10 fish at 18 inches and seen it all never thought I'd see a decline as fast as this especially with this YOY average at .89 lowest ever.

Fin and I were talking about this......and we knew it was time for another thread.....
(I can imagine as many of you are reading this, you are simultaneously rolling your eyes.......and thinking "No, not again! When is he gonna get off this bandwagon....I'm sick of hearing it....all this Negativity! Sick of hearing it and I don't want to listen anymore! ")

If that's the way you feel, fine, but I would like to remind the skeptics out there...that those who do not remember the sins of the past, are doomed to repeat them........

This is a recent number for the Chesapeake YOY....
Other numbers for the Hudson and Delaware stocks may be different........
The significance, is that this stat is 90% less than when the YOY showing was at it's highest.

Yes you read those figures right, folks.....90% less.......



If you don't understand or disagree with these stats as they relate to the striped bass population....feel free to bring that up as well...and we'll try our best to answer these questions, by sharing what those who fish every day....are seeing......

Thanks for reading, folks......

there are full charts to back all this up in thismonths Saltwater Sportsman magazine

Just a refresher of the posts on the first page....seamonkey thanks for posting that chart, and others for their comments as well.... Remember if you disagree and can back it up with a few years of current data or your logs please feel free to post that.....



I finally found that article online after Fin mailed it to me...so I'll try to post in it's entirety below, along with some comments....
To me this is more important than how many big fish will be caught this year....grateful to those here who have found the time to post...
The article...
http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/sp...s-striped-bass

[DarkSkies]

Bad News for Striped Bass..from the Saltwater Sportsman Feb 2013.....
http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/sp...s-striped-bass





Bad News for Striped Bass

The past might not be a valid indicator of the future.
By Rip Cunningham



Enlarge
Bad News for Striped Bass

A very low young-of-the-year index released this past October has many striped bass fans worried that the stock might be declining.

It is my usual rule not to write about the same subject matter two months in a row. However, I am told that rules are made to be broken.

As I write this, there is a sense that the sky is falling concerning one of recreational fishing’s most *important *resources. This is happening at a time when some thought we might have turned a corner and headed in a *sustainable direction.

What is the problem? It is the lowest young-of-the-year index ever recorded for striped bass in Chesapeake Bay for the 59 years this survey has been conducted. This comes a year after the *young-of-the-year index was well above average in 2011.

The disturbingly low index — released in early October, as the figures are every year — appears to be the *continuation of three years of decreasing numbers, all well below the long-term average of this spawning success index.

These were 2008, 2009 and 2010. At the moment, fishery managers do not seem to be very concerned. To those who lived through the striped bass decline in the 1970s and ’80s, this has a very familiar feeling to it.

[seamonkey]

From finchaser answering Leadheads comment

This is a recent number for the Chesapeake YOY....
Other numbers for the Hudson and Delaware stocks may be different........

The significance, is that this stat is 90% less than when the YOY showing was at it's highest.

Yes you read those figures right, folks.....90% less.......


for those of ya's who are or ....we'll try to come back in this thread, and explain why these numbers are alarming, and historically significant.....


As some of ya's can see, I don't have as much time for these threads as I used to....so if anyone, can find ANY info on this stat, and ANYTHING related to this topic of Conservation.....Fin, the Old Farts out there, Old Salts, and others, and I. would be most grateful.........


If you don't understand or disagree with these stats as they relate to the striped bass population....feel free to bring that up as well...and we'll try our best to answer these questions, by sharing what those who fish every day....are seeing......














I know many think of these types of threads as less interesting....but you can read about what is happpening now......
Or take up golf, if it becomes necessary to institute another Striped Bass Moratorium........

And with the YOY Chesapeake stats that low....that's the direction this is heading.......




Thanks for reading, folks......

They reported on this in Delaware's Cape Gazette too



Striped bass young of the year numbers decline

By Eric Burnley | Jan 19, 2013

Source: Submitted

The striped bass young of the year

The state of Maryland has surveyed the young of the year striped bass population since 1955. They haul seine various locations, count the number of striped bass at each site and then compile the results. In 2012, the survey recorded its lowest number on record. The YOY was 0.9, meaning on average, less than one striped bass was caught at each site.

Delaware does not conduct a targeted striped bass YOY survey, but these fish are counted as part of the annual trawl survey. New Jersey does count young of the year rockfish, but those results have not been released. Virginia reported its survey was as poor as Maryland’s.

So what caused this drastic decline in young of the year numbers? The answer may lie in the drought we experienced last winter and spring. The Delaware trawl survey did not record any striped bass fry until it reached the northernmost location in the Delaware River. Maryland indicated it too had saltwater much farther up the bay than is even close to normal. This high salinity would make it very difficult for the fry to survive.

We know that the condition of the water in the upper reaches of the bays and rivers where striped bass spawn is critical to their survival.

When you examine the results of the YOY survey in Maryland, you can see it is made up of highs and lows. There were several above-average year classes from 1955 to 1970, and then a series of below-average classes from 1971 to 1989. Those 18 years of low spawning success resulted in a decline in the striped bass stock to the point of collapse. The striped bass moratorium stopped the harvest of these fish all along the coast. To the surprise of those who opposed this action, once we stopped killing rockfish, they made a remarkable comeback.

In 1989, there was a YOY index that was high enough to trigger an end to the moratorium. The addition of Hambrooks Bar to the list of survey sites was the reason for this better-than-average result. It was the only location that had a count above the average, and it was so high, it brought the overall level to a point higher than anything since 1970. While it was never proven, some of us thought politics might have had a hand in the addition of Hambrooks Bar to a list that had remained the same since 1955.

In the mid-1970s, a State-Federal Advisory Committee was formed to examine the plight of the striped bass. I represented Delaware recreational fishermen, and Roy Miller was there from the Division of Fish and Wildlife. We fought an uphill battle for years trying to come up with regulations that would halt the decline, with very limited success. Finally, Congress gave the Atlantic States Fisheries Advisory Commission the power to enforce regulations, but by then many of us felt a moratorium was the only solution. It was Gov. Hughes from Maryland who ordered a complete moratorium, and Delaware followed shortly thereafter. Other states implemented their own moratoriums, and even the Commonwealth of Virginia was dragged kicking and screaming into compliance.

Today the ASMFC has regulations to prevent a repeat of the decline in the 1970s and '80s. Should the YOY fall below average for three years, regulations would be reviewed and strong actions taken. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen.


http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/p/striped-bass-young-of-the-year-numbers-decline/949333

[seamonkey]

From finchaser answering Leadheads comment

They reported on this in Delaware's Cape Gazette too



Striped bass young of the year numbers decline

By Eric Burnley | Jan 19, 2013

Source: Submitted

The striped bass young of the year

The state of Maryland has surveyed the young of the year striped bass population since 1955. They haul seine various locations, count the number of striped bass at each site and then compile the results. In 2012, the survey recorded its lowest number on record. The YOY was 0.9, meaning on average, less than one striped bass was caught at each site.

Delaware does not conduct a targeted striped bass YOY survey, but these fish are counted as part of the annual trawl survey. New Jersey does count young of the year rockfish, but those results have not been released. Virginia reported its survey was as poor as Maryland’s.

So what caused this drastic decline in young of the year numbers? The answer may lie in the drought we experienced last winter and spring. The Delaware trawl survey did not record any striped bass fry until it reached the northernmost location in the Delaware River. Maryland indicated it too had saltwater much farther up the bay than is even close to normal. This high salinity would make it very difficult for the fry to survive.

We know that the condition of the water in the upper reaches of the bays and rivers where striped bass spawn is critical to their survival.

When you examine the results of the YOY survey in Maryland, you can see it is made up of highs and lows. There were several above-average year classes from 1955 to 1970, and then a series of below-average classes from 1971 to 1989. Those 18 years of low spawning success resulted in a decline in the striped bass stock to the point of collapse. The striped bass moratorium stopped the harvest of these fish all along the coast. To the surprise of those who opposed this action, once we stopped killing rockfish, they made a remarkable comeback.

In 1989, there was a YOY index that was high enough to trigger an end to the moratorium. The addition of Hambrooks Bar to the list of survey sites was the reason for this better-than-average result. It was the only location that had a count above the average, and it was so high, it brought the overall level to a point higher than anything since 1970. While it was never proven, some of us thought politics might have had a hand in the addition of Hambrooks Bar to a list that had remained the same since 1955.

In the mid-1970s, a State-Federal Advisory Committee was formed to examine the plight of the striped bass. I represented Delaware recreational fishermen, and Roy Miller was there from the Division of Fish and Wildlife. We fought an uphill battle for years trying to come up with regulations that would halt the decline, with very limited success. Finally, Congress gave the Atlantic States Fisheries Advisory Commission the power to enforce regulations, but by then many of us felt a moratorium was the only solution. It was Gov. Hughes from Maryland who ordered a complete moratorium, and Delaware followed shortly thereafter. Other states implemented their own moratoriums, and even the Commonwealth of Virginia was dragged kicking and screaming into compliance.

Today the ASMFC has regulations to prevent a repeat of the decline in the 1970s and '80s. Should the YOY fall below average for three years, regulations would be reviewed and strong actions taken. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

it says NJ does conduct a YOY survey but those results have not been released. i wonder what those numbers would show?

[DarkSkies]

If we don't watchout the Stripers will be in the same boat as the whiting for next generation of fisherman.

Absolutely vpass......thanks for making that point.....I know you have been fishing for them your whole life, since you were a kid.....

The educatlon of the younger anglers out there is a critical part of the process......
There are some of the newer guys in their 20's starting to understand...and seeing the benefit of C&R...but the thing about C&R fishing is you can't push it on anyone...nor should you try...
...the best way to reach people is through education.
We try our best to do that here....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...release-thread






There are a core group of fishermen who refuse to believe there is anything wrong with the bass stocks.....
Such as the ones that point to the Hudson YOY 2011 # as proof of a strong biomass....

What folks need to understand is that the most important stats are not a single YOY tally....but the trendiing upward or downward of stats as taken over a broad time frame, like a 5-10 year period.

And when you look at it as an aggregate of YOY stats in combination of what it harvested, over a minimum period of a decade or more....
It's hard to argue that the bass stocks are as healthy as they were...because overall, there has been a decline.....

Most importantly, as the old timers here keep stating over and over....
We are harvesting at a greater rate, than the bass are being replaced......
This is the critical trend that we need to help the folks out there understand...before it really is too late......

[DarkSkies]

Absolutely vpass......thanks for making that point.....I know you have been fishing for them your whole life, since you were a kid.....

The educatlon of the younger anglers out there is a critical part of the process......
There are some of the newer guys in their 20's starting to understand...and seeing the benefit of C&R...the thing about C&R fishing is you can't push it on anyone...nor should you try...
...the best way to reach people is through education.
We try our best to do that here....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...release-thread






There are a core group of fishermen who refuse to believe there is anything wrong with the bass stocks.....
Such as the ones that point to the Hudson YOY 2011 # as proof of a strong biomass....

What folks need to understand is that the most important stats are not a single YOY tally....but the trending upward or downward of stats as taken over a broad time frame, like a 5-10 year period.

And when you look at it as an aggregate of YOY stats in combination of what it harvested, over a minimum period of a decade or more....
It's hard to argue that the bass stocks are as healthy as they were...because overall, there has been a decline.....

Most importantly, as the old timers here keep stating over and over....
**We are harvesting at a greater rate, than the bass are being replaced......
This is the critical trend that we need to help the folks out there understand...before it really is too late......

Because of the trends I was seeing, 2 years ago I decided to document Coastwide what was happening with the bass stocks...broken down by regional observations, with a bi-annual assessment period.

Admittedly it's a crude attempt....as there are no scientific data points that would allow scientists to accept it as valid........
but folks reading it should know that somehow, over the years, I've managed to meet and befriend hundreds of fishermen who fish regularly......

This thread, which attempts to qualify this decline on an annual basis.......is the result of hundreds of conversations every year, with fishermen who fish regularly, and have been fishing for decades.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...***+assessment

[DarkSkies]

From our thread, "Striped Bass have never been healthier"

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...Been-Healthier










This is just a paraphrase of what Bill Wetzel is saying........


**I agree with it all, as I have seen it, and every year have to try to explain to guys who are new to the sport, why the fishing they are saying is "Epic" at Montauk is but a mere shadow of what it was, just 7 short years ago




Bill Wetzel.....
"There are thousands of sandeels at Montauk in the Spring, thousands of them......
Fluke blitzing on them, all over, but not one bass.....
This is a common occurrence......
A smorgasbord of fluke, sandeels, bait...but no bass........

This summer, there was tons of bait on the North and South shore, no small bass on them....
Some blame the water temps....F*** that! I take the water temps every time I go out, and it was not the temperature...

I'm out there all the time, 40 hours a week, and I know what I see....If striped bass are so healthy how come they haven't expanded their range?
Guides in Maine are quitting there are so few bass there they can't make a living from them...

Last year fishing at Montauk was terrible...this year we got some nice fish, true, but where were all the smaller bass? ..7 years ago it was a no brainer to catch numbers at Montauk"

[DarkSkies]

Additionally, the other threads you see listed below, are some of many here that try to educate folks who may not know, understand, or may only have been fishing a few seasons and may not have this perspective....

1. Candid conversations:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...t-striped-bass

2. Striped Bass have never been healthier?
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...Been-Healthier

3. Back Bay and Bait Fishing and Migration Patterns
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...shing-patterns

4. Where are the Striped Bass?
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...e+are+the+bass


5. Honey the Striped Bass are Shrinking!
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...e+are+the+bass

6. www.StripersAndAnglers.com Coastwide Bass Assessment
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...***+assessment




What's important is these are not random opinions by me on a soapbox, but a compilation of hundreds of critically honest observations by Captains and Anglers...all along the East Coast, who I have been fortunate enough to meet and remain in contact with. I'm very grateful for their opinions as these are the folks who fish more than most.....







And absent quantitative data, or data that is sometimes flawed or skewed (look at the recent dispute in the Seabass assessments and biomass calcs)

I would submit that this Qualitative method of gathering and presenting assessments of hundreds of anglers...is as accurate a picture as you wll get at this time....and can been seen as a compelling indicator of
1. Trends
2. Concerns
3. Rationales
4. Critical Field Observations

[DarkSkies]

I know these Conservation posts are not the most interesting to talk about....that's why you see lots of highlighting and Smiley icons.....


Folks need to understand how they are all inter-related.....

1. Close down the sea-bass, folks will put fishing pressure on the fluke...
2. Curtail the fluke and sea-bass, folks will naturally put pressure on another species....namely the striped bass.........


What about groundfish....the Great Codfish Recovery?