NJ Access Lost Due to Fisherman Selfishness and Bad Behavior.

[clamchucker]

Two many examples of selfishness and bad behavior lately. Thought I would start a listing of all the places we lost or are in danger of losing.

St. Alfonso's: Most everybody knows the story, that access is now restricted there. This is because some joker tried to take a dump in the rectory's bathroom, and then gave a priest a hard time when confronted about it. Why would anybody in their right mind want to give those priests a hard time?

Now they have security guards during peak periods, and a very bad opinion of us fishermen.

[wish4fish]

pullman Ave. some ****** was cleaning fish there, left garbage in front of peoples house. no parking signs everywhere, and everyday they're giving tickets to anyone who comes in to fish. azzholes have to ruin it for everyone.

[bababooey]

Lake Takanassee. It was closed anyway due to development. Fishermen were able to park in the lot till the other day/ Now there's a fence there.

Last week we were there fishing, things were a little crazy with the bunker. Kayaker comes up to the beach from out in the water.There is no room for him to get back to land, and fishermen wouldn't move for him. He starts yelling for people to let him back to shore, words exchanged with a fisherman.

As soon as he beaches, fisherman kicks hit kayak. Kayak dude immediately goes over to the guy with paddle in UFC stance, we figured it was gonna be a brawl. Kayaker started talking about how he would have us all towed from the lot. Fisherman told him to eff himself.

Finally some reasonable older dude intervened, no fight, they talked it out.

The fisherman, a guy I know from the jetties, didn't know the kayaker was one of the owners. We were all crazy after those bass, that's all that mattered. So I'm just saying that you never know who you might meet on the beach. There was no way to know he was the nephew of one of the owners. He had more rights to that space than we did. Sometimes we should be a little more careful. Don't know if that's what closed the access. Could just be a coincidence because now they are doing the construction. But it probably didn't help to have that kayaker disrespected like that.

[bababooey]

Found this on another site. Made sense.


Yet part of the problem is some people, some of who are members here, don't see themselves as part of the problem. Kinda like the people who change their baby's diaper on the boardwalk in full view of others, then drop it on the ground because they are too lazy to walk it the extra 10 feet to the trash.

Then, God forbid you should say something to them, they look at you like you have 3 heads. We are becoming a society where people feel entitled to walk on or be inconsiderate of others. It's ok because Mommy and Daddy set the example, no apologies ever necessary.

If it weren't SOL'ers to blame, there wouldn't be this graffiti at Roosevelt. There for 2 yrs now, someone obviously felt it was time to speak out about the inconsiderate antics of some of us.

What a self indulgent bunch some of us are here. It's ok to burn spots here, publicize that fishing is great at the power plant, so many dozen extra guys rush to fish there. Not a problem because no people live there? I still see it as a problem, maybe that's just the way I was brought up.

Many want to blame the Spanish and all the other hard-working immigrants, when a good part of the blame lies with the good old white guys.

If it weren't SOL'ers to blame, curl wouldn't have caught one of the SOL'ers at the "L" cutting up fish on the boards every night, and leaving the carcasses under there to pizz off the rich people, some of who just don't like fishermen anyway. Curl is too discreet to publicize this doooooshe's name. You know curl doesn't post much, but if he has to speak up, it's serious.

I don't blame these homeowners. The amount of disrespect I have seen this year is the worst ever. If I lived there I would be on the horn every day to the Mayor, asking that it be shut down. These people don't pay thousands in taxes just to have us come and pizz on our lawn.

Many members here go above and beyond, bringing other's trash home, scooping up human poop, etc. But how many of us are good at ranting on the internet, and then not being a good example for the whole group of fishermen?

Lake Tak may have been scheduled to be fenced, but there was an incident last Tue with someone in the owners' family that was typical of the disregard we have for others when we are fishing. More on another site, you can read it there Ship.

"I have met the enemy, and it is us"

How many of us will learn from this, and try to be better citizens instead of blaming others? Guy comes on here complaining about fishing etiquette, and a long-standing troll here calls him a sissy.

Takes a real man to call someone a sissy on the internet when you weigh about 130 and stand 5'3" tall, and make excuses for not showing your face at SOL gatherings.

Bravo for SOL, head and shoulders above everyone else.

Yep, you can keep telling yourselves that, or speak up when the babbling idiots and troublemakers sound off, and try to conduct your/ourselves better so that we are better examples.

One of the biggest interest groups out there, yet we are one of the most dysfunctional. I don't think that will ever change. Rants on the internet definitely won't do it.
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[wish4fish]

ha ha geeks and losers, lol. been to that site, summa my friends members there. some cool threads, but too much whining about VS better than zeebass, i'm a better fishermen than you, whine whine, brign me the waambulance! not geeks and losers, more like whiners and losers.

[clamchucker]

Lake Takanassee. It was closed anyway due to development. Fishermen were able to park in the lot till the other day/ Now there's a fence there.

That situation has changed as of Friday. Access is now open.

[bunkerjoe4]

ha ha geeks and losers, lol. been to that site, summa my friends members there. some cool threads, but too much whining about VS better than zeebass, i'm a better fishermen than you, whine whine, brign me the waambulance! not geeks and losers, more like whiners and losers.

Hey folks, I don't mind some of you cut and pasting comments from other boards if it's relevant to the discussion. It's a free country.

However, I would like to keep negative comments against other boards to a minimum here. Each board out there is run by a hard-working guy who believes in what he does, and is trying to raise awareness for all of us. As such, they are not responsible for the negative actions of a few members.

Again, you may cut and paste comments from other boards where they SPECIFICALLY relate to the discussion, and are NOT copyrighted materials, please. Otherwise, please keep any personal attacks to yourself. Thanks, bunkerjoe.

[fishlipper]

That situation has changed as of Friday. Access is now open.

Clamchucker, I think that has changed, gates are now closed. Time to get on the horn with the mayor's office on Monday.

(But, after that incident bababooey mentioned with the kayaker relative of the owners, I'm not surprised people have a bad attitude toward fishermen.) Some of us just don't care about the consequences.


this came from another site:

Get the Tak fence down - Make those calls to Long Branch!
Prove to the mayors office that we're serious about keeping our fishing access and PARKING FOR THAT ACCESS 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Be sure to mention #7 in the CAFRA agreement dated march 8 2008, and point out that it specifically uses the words PRIOR to construction.

Call the mayors office NOW, right now

Mayor Adam Schneider
732-222-7000, ext. 5270
or
732-222-8800

[bababooey]

Public access restored at former beach club site
Mayor: Fence on Tak. property aimed to protect historic structures
BY CHRISTINE VARNO Staff Writer
Local fishermen have their beach access restored at the Takanassee oceanfront site in Long Branch after being denied entry at the fishing "hot spot" by a newly erected fence.
PHOTOS BY ERIC SUCAR staff The newly erected fence at the former Takanassee Beach Club site on the Long Branch oceanfront. After putting up a fence along the former Takanassee Beach Club property last week, the owner of the site has agreed to keep the gate open to permit fishermen access to the oceanfront, according to Mayor Adam Schneider.
"The gate is open now and it was open all weekend," Schneider said Monday.
The fence was erected last week after the owner received a permit from the city to fence in the property to protect three historic structures that stand on the former beach club property, according to Schneider.
"[The owner of the property] is looking for a solution to provide access while protecting the buildings," Schneider said. "I don't know that you can do both.
"If you surround the buildings with fences, do you have enough access to allow people to the beach?" he added.

The fence at Takanassee that the fishermen are saying blocks their beach access. Activists and environmentalists, along with Councilman Brian Unger, were seeking last week that public beach access be restored at the Takanassee oceanfront site after learning that a fence was erected at the site.
In an e-mail sent to the state Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) on Friday, Unger informed the agency that a fence has been erected on the former Takanassee Beach Club property, blocking beach access for fishermen.
Unger is claiming that the fence is violating the terms and conditions listed in the Coastal Area Facilities Review Act (CAFRA) permit granted to developer Takanassee Developers LLC for a project that calls for 19 homes to be constructed at the site of the former beach club.
"It's clear in the DEP permit that prior to and during construction at the site, public access to the beach has to be provided," Unger said.

According to Unger, under the "Terms and Conditions, Physical Conditions" section of the permit, it states that five public access parking spaces must be provided prior and during construction, and access for parking cannot be impeded during construction of the project.

The fence erected at the Takanassee site. It additionally states that construction of the project shall not impair the ability of local fishermen and others from gaining access to the Atlantic Ocean.
In the e-mail, Unger wrote, "I therefore respectfully request that your unit take appropriate steps to remedy this situation."
Isaac Chera, principal in Takanassee Developers, was issued a CAFRA permit from the DEP on Feb. 28 to construct five single-family homes, eight condominium units and six townhouses on the 4.8-acre site on Ocean Avenue where three original Life Saving stations stand.

With the approval come some 30 conditions the developer must adhere to in order to move forward with the project, including preserving the historic Life Saving buildings.

Late Friday afternoon, Unger spoke with DEP officials and said, "I believe DEP enforcement is trying to come up with an interim solution that includes continuous beach access and protects and secures the historic structures, but also does not put an unreasonable burden on the developer."

The preservation of the historic structures on the site is the primary reason Chera erected the fence on the property, according to Schneider.

"[Chera] got a fence permit from the city to protect the buildings from being vandalized," Schneider said. "He said he was having vandalism problems and his insurance carrier had issues with the site being so open.

"His insurance carrier said that if he wants to be insured, he has to protect the buildings," Schneider said, adding, "There are issues about the buildings being preserved."

Chera could not be reached for comment by deadline Tuesday.
Schneider explained that the CAFRA permit does require that Chera provide public access to the beach, but people are questioning when the conditions of the permit are to be enforced.
Schneider said that it is his understanding that the permit is to be enforced once constructions starts and to be continued upon completion of the project.

"He does not have an obligation to provide public access there now," Schneider said. "I don't think that the permit applies yet.
"Once he builds the project, he must provide public access," he said, adding, "If he chooses not to build, he doesn't have to provide public access."

Schneider has spoken about the issue with the city's assistant director of planning and zoning, Carl Turner.

"Carl doesn't know how Mr. Chera can be responsible to provide access during construction," Schneider said.

"Once he is done [with the project], there are very stringent rules that he must provide access.

"If DEP has required access now, then he has to provide access now," Schneider said, adding, "I don't think they did. [The city] has nothing that says Isaac is required to provide public access now."
Schneider explained that Chera is open for suggestions as to how he can provide public access while protecting the historic structures on the site.

"If somebody can come up with a good way to do it and protect the buildings, I am sure [Chera] would consider it," Schneider said.
Unger suggested that a form of security could be enforced at the site to allow for public access, while protecting the structures.
"We have urged them to protect the structures," Unger said. "I think they have a watchman on the property.

"We need access from sunup to sundown," Unger said, adding, "They can do that by locking the gate and then provide security personnel."

[fishinmission78]

I think there is a security guy there on weekends, green suv, won't let u park in the lot, but you can walk through to fish. In the end I think access will be closed at all the spots we used to know.

[BassBuddah]

You guys should see the royal screwing we are getting in LI. I will post the story, come on over and check it out. Really sucks.

[stormchaser]

I came here to post, saw BB beat me to it. But I'll ask again anyway. If any of you guys fish NY as well, please tune in to this other thread, we are losing access. Even if you don't live in NY, would appreciate some of you calling the # and putting her on the spot by voicing your complaint, in a respectful manner. Thanks for any help you can give us, let us know if we can make phone calls to help with the NJ access.

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...read.php?t=990

[cowherder]

We should all try to do think a little more. saw a guy the other day come out and take a leak right in the open. Go in the water, or find a spot in some weeds somewhere (away from the houses). Never know when someone is looking and may judge all fishermen by what you do.

[nitestrikes]

He should put a fence on either side of the path. It will close access to what he wants, yet leave access to the beach for us diehard fisherman.

[DarkSkies]

Anyone who fishes OC is aware of a few "hotspots". Go there a few times and people will say "Oh you should fish

1.***
2. ***
3*** , that's where the fish are."

The problem with that is it concentrates people in one area, and the logic is flawed.

Those who spend time scouting at low tide can find at least 30 good holes between PP and IBSP. Following all the other fishermen based on rumors and conversations about catches isn't always the smartest strategy.

In the case of Mantoloking, it backfired, and we fishermen will now have to pay the price.

Fin let me know that there are spots in Mantoloking where "no trespassing on the dunes" signs are now posted. The police are seriously enforcing this, as either a new ordinance was recently passed, or they are concentrating on an old one.

Either way, we fishermen will suffer because of this. 4 tickets have been given out already to fishermen, and the police are very aggressive in ticketing. Allegedly, no warnings are given, only tickets.

I know that access walkways and ramps were ripped up there by the storm, so people have been making their own paths, just like they have been doing all the way to IBSP.

I was told that the Mayor heard enough complaints from residents unhappy about fishermen tresspassing through their properties and disregarding private property boundaries. They went to the police and demanded they do a better job.

Meanwhile, we as fishermen were thoughtless. Several guys phoned complaints in to me of fishermen acting like pigs on the beach with the trash from bait, coffee cups, and other fishing garbage. The residents had enough, and now they struck back.

Please tell your friends to be careful if down there. This is not a Public Trust Doctrine issue, as beach access is not being denied.

We brought this on ourselves, guys and girls. Let's try to be a little more considerate out there.

[plugaholic]

That is becoming a big issue. If you want to fish an area show respect to the owners. I have this one place I fish, which over the years I got to know the owners. When I first started going there I happened to see the owner outside. I introduced myself and after about 15 minutes I asked it it was ok for me to access the beach from his land. He was so grateful and impressed that I asked. He told me that a lot of fisherman couldn't care less. They leave their trash all over the place and pee on the lawn.

If we want to continue fishing and having easy access we need to be respectful of others property.

Good manners goes a long way in the fishing world.

[DarkSkies]

Here's a copy of that letter. If you think about it, it's a pretty decent thing for the police to do by putting warning letters on cars. They are giving tickets as well, but as I understand it they're looking less to harass fishermen, and more to protect the rights of homeowners.

That's good news, they're doing their job. The rights of homeowners who have their property trespassed on should be enforced.

I bumped into George from the Mantoloking homeowners association the other week, and had a short conversation with him. He seemed a pretty decent guy, and was actually concerned with the fishermen having enough access.

He talked of rebuilding a stairway on a particular street we were on. He had some reservations about if they rebuilt it, would the winter storms tear it down again. My suggestion was to leave it until the spring. I don't like to see money wasted, even it it's not mine. IMO they are very pro-active about preserving fishermen access, and should be commended for that.

I know we have Constitutional access granted by the Public Trust. However, moving forward on these issues, I've learned there are a lot of underhanded things towns can do to take access away, all perfectly legal.

So let's try to get the word out to respect the properties in this area. If you see anyone littering or acting like an idiot, say something to them, or call the police and report the vehicle plate #.

It only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for us all. In the case of the Mantoloking Homeowners assoc, it seems they are more than willing to meet the fishermen halfway. We should try to show them the same courtesy.

[finchaser]

From another site




Pebble Beach...you know those signs?
Well today I met a nice young man working for the Fish and Game. As I walked on to the road we met and he asked, "Is this your car?" It wasn't mine because I don't park on the street I walk there. But he asked if I had permission to fish there and I didn't have any such permission. The officer told me that the signs that say "No Trespassing" that are posted all along the one side of the street are real and he can issue anyone there walking out from the water with rod or gun a $135 ticket for "trespassing to hunt or fish". He was told by his supervisor that the other day there were 20 cars on the street and lets face it they were fishing. Since there is only one house that faces the bay and it wasn't a party they knew. So from now on the officer will be there to issue tickets

[Pebbles]

What ever happened to the Public Trust Doctrine? How could they possibly issue a ticket? Who ownes the land and how come they do not have to provide access?

A couple years ago there a major blitz going on. Dark and I were right in thick of it. It was one of the best fishing days I ever had. Now I can't even go there.

[surfstix1963]

Thats a common problem in NY they buy the houses and think they own the beach especially in the Hamptons.Access is becoming such a problem w/ all the separate town permits you need,4 WD permits if you drive the beaches which are closed half the season and now a fishing license it is becoming quite expensive.If this keeps up I might just go back to party boat fishing I love the sport but I'm increasingly getting more annoyed every year.