Public Trust and access issues in Southhampton, LI

[DarkSkies]

There is a pretty strong argument going on now, about whether non-residents of SouthHampton, LI should be allowed 4x4 beach access.

To many people who live in NJ, this may not seem important....what does access 100 miles away, in another state, have to do with me?.....you may ask.....

The important lessons learned from this, are how towns manage to not violate the Public Trust Doctrine, and still manage to make it difficult for fishermen to access their beaches. This is done by making parking restrictions in all areas that fishermen are likely to use to access these beaches.

NJ fishermen may not understand, or feel it can't happen here....this would be a mistake....as all the local towns in NJ have to do to keep most fishermen away is to copy the MO of these towns, and enact this restrictive parking......

My goal is to raise awareness, and allow others to see when I am fighting with passion, on the internet, at some stupid or careless act done by one of us such as:
1. Leaving a fish rack in a homeowners' garbage..
2. cleaning fish in front of private property, and possibly using their hose when you are done (yes this has happened)......
3. Tresspassing on homowners property when you clearly have other public access
4. Urinating on a homeowners property or in the street in front of it...
5. Sitting with binoculars, on a street with million dollar homes, and waiting for the fish blitzes, is not a great way to endear yourself with homeowners.

6. Loitering around your vehicle...and the resulting trash, cigarette butts, coffee cups, that are left behind by fishermen..

also imperils our future access chances, and eventually could cost us that access.





**All of these homeowner problems, could be eliminated by the town calling a special meeting, and enacting seasonal parking access restrictions. In the blink of an eye we could lose our access.

[DarkSkies]

The issue, as I understand it, is an issue for many towns in LI.

They are not set up as towns the way they are in NJ....there is a borough system, each borough controlling several towns.

Each borough is responsible for its own regulations. How that affects fishing is if you want to fish there, you must buy a night fishing permit, or risk tickets and heavy fines.

These permits are not cheap...ranging from $100-250 per borough. (rough estimate here, I could be off a bit)
The 4x4 permits are usually priced higher than standard night fishing permits.

Residents sometimes need to pay a fee as well, but it is substantially less, in some cases 25% of what non-residents pay.

They do this for beach access fees as well.
In some towns in Ct, for example, the beach fee is $25/person/day, for non residents....meaning a family of 5 might have to shell out $125 just for beach access, for one day.........
(what that really implies, is that if you are not a resident, they don't want you there)

IMO these fees not only impact fishermen, they affect us all. Our enjoyment of a beach should grant us equal access to, and pricing, as someone who lives there....but that is the subject of another topic and thread.........




**The point here, is that the towns do in fact control access this way.
In some ways, that might be a good thing...that way, you don't have caravans of roving teens partying and littering your beaches at night....you have some control....

However, how much control, is too much?
1. When it becomes restrictive to fishermen (most of whom are respectful)
2. When it is restrictive to disabled, older, or handicapped folks who have trouble finding parking in an area, and just want to walk the beach?

Parking restrictions keep out the riff-raff, but they also unfairly come down on those of us who are law abiding citizens, and just want to enjoy a beach area as allowed by the Public Trust.
My focus here in these fishing forums, will be how they affect us as fishermen.

[DarkSkies]

In the internet discussions I have been involved in, I have found that many will come out and say they are in favor of fishermen and fishing access.....
but when it comes to their town, some folks don't like fishermen, and don't want them there....calling for and enacting parking restrictions to keep us out.


Rhetorical Question....
Is it any wonder that some homeowners don't like fishermen?
I can see their point...as above I ilustrated some of the things that we have done to irritate them....

It's my belief that we are judged as a group, by the actions of a few....and when restrictions are enacted, we all suffer.

[DarkSkies]

Below is part of a discussion happening somewhere else. If you want to read the whole discussion, PM me for the link.
I jumped in these discussions because there is LI legend named Willie Young. Willie and I have become friends over the years as we met several times out East, and at various fishermen access meetings.

There are folks out there, who hate Willie. He is very outspoken, and has been fighting for striped bass, and fishing access, for decades.......
The part about him being outspoken is an understatement....he is very blunt...not diplomatic....and brutally honest.....
I want anyone reading his quotes here, to understand that context......he is very similar to Finchaser....they have both been fighting for most of their lives for fishing issues....when you do that, you tend to make some enemies of those you are battling against.....


What's important to recognize here, is the extent some folks will go to, and how they will manipulate the truth, to keep fishermen out of their areas.

This could be very well happening in NJ, sooner than you think.

[DarkSkies]

(note, the only name you will see here is Willie's....as he is involved in many discussions for fishing access and striped bass regs).....the other names I have taken out in fairness to those folks. If they are not members here I don't want anyone to think I am bad mouthing them, per se.

I feel the things that were said were the important things to focus on.....
To me, these discussions can be helpful learning tools if we look at
1. what was said, not who said it
2. try to see how it could happen in our neighborhoods
****************************


Part of the discussion here.....

Can anyone who is a non resident of Southampton show me their beach driving permit for Southampton .Wake up there is none
Yes I worked with residents and the trustees to fight the Brodsky Bill and the lawsuit by homeowners. The only time ** name came up was as someone who told the trustees he was in favor of ending non resident permits.

No permit = personal appearance ticket heavy fine
Willie

So it means nothing to you to make the disabled, handicapped, elderly,fisherman with their gear walk a mile .
New York State provides this access . YES EVEN A 4X4 PERMIT FOR SURFERS
Try telling what is real for a change
Willie

Willy, And we have people worried about ALL USER GROUPS and what happens at NYS beaches and parks?
Confusion is setting in..............

The confusion here, is that when we talk about fisheries management issues, and what commercial fishermen should or should not be allowed to take, that concerns ** and his family member who is a commercial fisherman.
Also, when a decision impacts surfers, that impacts **, who is a surfer. So his big speech to all of us here is:
"I am ** and I am fighting for ALL USER GROUPS. Willy you are myopic because you do not include us, wah wah wah!"

For any OTHER issues, ** reverts back to his elitist, hypocritical ways.
He does not want you in his backyard of Southhampton if you are not a resident..

He will pretend that he does, and hide behind the dongan patent when it comes to matters that personally affect him.

I've had people come down to the waters edge
Literally Screaming their heads off that I can't fish there
Without a Southampton sticker .

NO 4X4 for non residents, NO freshwater fishing for non residents, understood.
So where is all this access for all user groups located?

Great points, guys.
It seems that ** only yammers about access for ALL user groups when he is the one excluded or affected. When he is part of the group (southhampton residents) doing the excluding, it's all good and justified.

All of these "municipalities" exist within NYS. Using NYS tax money to operate. So all residents of NYS should have access to them...

**....This is one of the dirty little tricks they play in beach access in LI and many areas of CT. **, **, and some others here touched on it in their comments, good observations.
They say they are not violating the Public Trust. They allow fishermen to have access, and for many of your areas you have to buy a night fishing permit.

However, they strictly control the access by severely limiting the parking. In some cases as you members mentioned, it's hard to find, or not available. So they have not violated the Public Trust, they have merely controlled your parking access to that area......
Sneaky, tricky, elitist, and hypocritical, ain't they?

[rockhopper]

Haha ds I saw that you actually told the guy we are not good enough for him cause we don't use gray poupon lol!!!!! Thanks for all you do we need the help. Williy always gets in fights on the internet. I don't know how he does it day after day he must have a lot of energy. without him we wouldnt have half of the access we have. 3 cheers for willy!!!!!!!

[BassBuddah]

You jersey folks have it easy. I fished Island beach state park in 2011 with dark's help. Very reasonable beach fees and a nice place when it is not crowded. We have so many more rules and regulations here. To fish just one area and cover choice ground you need at least 3 permits. It can get fairly expensive. Good job willy and dark.

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