Public Trust and access issues at Smith's Point. LI

[DarkSkies]

There is a pretty strong argument going on now, about whether non-residents of SouthHampton, LI should be allowed 4x4 beach access.

To many people who live in NJ, this may not seem important....what does access 100 miles away, in another state, have to do with me?.....you may ask.....

The important lessons learned from this, are how towns manage to not violate the Public Trust Doctrine, and still manage to make it difficult for fishermen to access their beaches. This is done by making parking restrictions in all areas that fishermen are likely to use to access these beaches.

NJ fishermen may not understand, or feel it can't happen here....this would be a mistake....as all the local towns in NJ have to do to keep most fishermen away is to copy the MO of these towns, and enact this restrictive parking......

My goal is to raise awareness, and allow others to see when I am fighting with passion, on the internet, at some stupid or careless act done by one of us such as:
1. Leaving a fish rack in a homeowners' garbage..
2. cleaning fish in front of private property, and possibly using their hose when you are done (yes this has happened)......
3. Tresspassing on homowners property when you clearly have other public access
4. Urinating on a homeowners property or in the street in front of it...
5. Sitting with binoculars, on a street with million dollar homes, and waiting for the fish blitzes, is not a great way to endear yourself with homeowners.

6. Loitering around your vehicle...and the resulting trash, cigarette butts, coffee cups, that are left behind by fishermen..also imperils our future access chances, and eventually could cost us that access...





**All of these homeowner problems, could be eliminated by the town calling a special meeting, and enacting seasonal parking access restrictions. In the blink of an eye we could lose our access.

[DarkSkies]

The issue, as I understand it, is an issue for many towns in LI.

They are not set up as towns the way they are in NJ....there is a borough system, each borough controlling several towns.

Each borough is responsible for its own regulations. How that affects fishing is if you want to fish there, you must buy a night fishing permit, or risk tickets and heavy fines.

These permits are not cheap...ranging from $100-200 per borough. (rough estimate here, I could be off a bit)
The 4x4 permits are even more pricey.

Residents sometimes need to pay a fee as well, but it is substantially less, in some cases 25% of what non-residents pay.

They do this for beach access fees as well.
In some towns in Ct, for example, the beach fee is $25/person/day, for non residents....meaning a family of 5 might have to shell out $125 just for beach access, for one day.........
(what that really implies, is that if you are not a resident, they don't want you there)

IMO these fees not only impact fishermen, they affect us all. Our enjoyment of a beach should grant us equal access to, and pricing, as someone who lives there....but that is the subject of another topic and thread.........




**The point here, is that the towns do in fact control access this way.
In some ways, that might be a good thing...that way, you don't have caravans of roving teens partying and littering your beaches at night....you have some control....

However, how much control, is too much?
1. When it becomes restrictive to fishermen (most of whom are respectful)
2. When it is restrictive to disabled, older, or handicapped folks who have trouble finding parking in an area, and just want to walk the beach?

Parking restrictions keep out the riff-raff, but they also unfairly come down on those of us who are law abiding citizens, and just want to enjoy a beach area as allowed by the Public Trust.
My focus here in these fishing forums, will be how they affect us as fishermen.

[DarkSkies]

In the internet discussions I have been involved in, I have found that many will come out and say they are in favor of fishermen and fishing access.....
but when it comes to their town, some folks don't like fishermen, and don't want them there....calling for and enacting parking restrictions to keep us out.


Rhetorical Question....
Is it any wonder that some homeowners don't like fishermen?
I can see their point...as above I ilustrated some of the things that we have done to irritate them....

It's my belief that we are judged as a group, by the actions of a few....and when restrictions are enacted, we all suffer.

[DarkSkies]

I know Smith's Point is different and may not apply to the 3 posts above (IE homeowner issues)...to save time, I copied them from the Southhampton thread.....
Surfstix and some of you others may know Smith's Point better than I do, so feel free to comment on the issues there, as they develop.
Thanks for reading.

[BassBuddah]

Keep up the good work fellas. I think this one may take a while.

[surfstix1963]

I buy my Suffolk County permit and State permit that gives me plenty of places to fish all year.

having more access is great but the little towns charge so much for permits you better be hardcore for the price you will pay and the very limited usage you will get out of it.Personally to me the present access we have covers quite a bit of water

I have access to Fire Island Moriches, Cupsogue and Shinnecock inlets. Smithspoint is approximately 6 miles of beachfront that is open all year except for the damn birds,there is also a federal permit you can purchase and head west of Smithspoint to the breach from Sandy.

The northshore has kept out of towners away for years just like the rich folk on Dune Rd. on the southshore in which the multi million dollar homes are only utilized for the summer.For me I have enough space to fish.I also have access to places in Montauk with my state and county permit.

The 4X4 access should be increased due to the fact none of us are getting any younger. there are disabled people who fish and walking the beach is out for them. our taxes are insane. This is for now of course.

[buckethead]

.The 4X4 access should be increased due to the fact none of us are getting any younger. there are disabled people who fish and walking the beach is out I'm one of them.

How do they get away with discriminating against the disabled Isn't that a fedral law violation?

[surfstix1963]

You really need to read the thread on the other site to understand what is happening.

I know a lot of people are going to get screwed because it has become a matter of whose politician has a bigger **** rather then the initial reason this whole thing started.

My personal opinion leave the breach open. this is the second time a storm has busted through old/new inlet leave Smithspoint alone and everybody except a select few will be happy.Hell I would like to drive from Cupsogue back east down the whole beach to Shinnecock inlet without buying more permits.

[surfstix1963]

After Sept.15th all beaches in all townships should be open to all Suffolk County/NYS residents with a county/state 4x4 permit.

that goes for all the beach front from Democrat to Montauk.
naturally you need to get off and bypass the inlets.But all these little sub-divisions are ridiculous.

If you are declared disabled or a senior citizen you should have the right to drive the beach rather then walking it.Actually everyone should be able to, we all pay the same taxes to the same state and county so other then paying separate town taxes which generally don't amount to much.All of our money goes to the same place so why should some be regarded as out of towners we all live on the same Island.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks for the input, Surf.
I know you have spent a lot of time in the past on those beaches.

[surfstix1963]

Yes I love to fish at Smithspoint probably one of my favorite spots to fish, I also know Willie has done a lot for the surf casting community and is a great fisherman also.The thread started off on a topic and then just got to a point where you just say to yourself these are grown men, just throwing punches at each other.At that time it was just pointless reading IMO.