Life, Death.... and Your Thoughts on Everything in Between.....

[DarkSkies]

Death or serious illness has visited many of us here, and in our circle of friends and family recently....
Monty and I were talking about this the other day....we are all getting older, hence it may seem to us more common, or happening more frequently.....

Recent events with the deterioration in health, and subsequent passing, of Pebbles Dad, has caused me to look at some things differently....

[DarkSkies]

A lot of my life is related to fishing....sometimes too much....as it can become an addiction......
Though not exactly fishing related, I thought this thread, can also relate to us, the fishing we do, and the things we do when we're not working or with family......sometimes our hobbies, fishing, etc, are all we have to provide us some semblance of sanity in this crazy, unfair world we live in.....

There is a Bill W thread where we already talk about things like this.....I see that although that thread is popular, the general theme is alcohol, and how mis-use of alcohol or drugs has affected our friends and family, in life.......
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ou-Know-Bill-W









I thought, in the broadest general terms, that this thread could be about anything else in life........

- Our Life and Death as we see it, our existence on this Earth....
- Our Faith, or Search for things or people/Concepts to believe in to help us get through tough times...
- Dealing with Parents or Family members/Friends who get older, and how we get through it....
- Our Concept of Life, and why it's important to get all out of life that we can......

[DarkSkies]

Recent events have caused me to see that life can turn around on any of us, in an instant....
and the realization that the life we take for Granted, for ourselves and others, can be permanently derailed, with one small turn down the road.....causing us immense pain and suffering, as we or others we know reach the final steps of their journey on this Earth........

[DarkSkies]

So what do we do with it...or the feelings that occur within us?

IMO a lot of us hide or avoid the feelings we are experiencing...thinking they will go away if we ignore them.....
this thread could be a place to talk about feelings of loss, impending loss, feelings of regret......or just a rant on the unfairness of it all....

It could be positive, or negative, depending on how things are going for you that day....the direction it takes, is up to you folks...
Beyond all that, I am wishing it can provide some hope and comfort, to those of us who are suffering, along with those in our lives, who are suffering......

**And help us all to see, more clearly, that life is a meal that needs to be savored, one bite at a time....but also as if it is your last meal.....
Tomorrow is never guaranteed, all we have is today........






Would be interested in hearing what others think......
and thoughts and prayers to all of us in the world, who now have parents, friends, or family who are suffering through an illness.....

[ledhead36]

The only certain things in life are death and taxes.
Live each day like it's your last.
2 things I try to go by, everything else is gravy. My Aunt passed away from cancer last year. It's hard to watch. It also got me a little angry how they try to keep folks alive even when there is no real quality of life. All about racking the bills up for some of them drs. When its time to die you should get some dignity. I respected what Dr Kevorkian did. Too bad they put him in jail

[jigfreak]

My Aunt passed away from cancer last year. It's hard to watch. It also got me a little angry how they try to keep folks alive even when there is no real quality of life. All about racking the bills up for some of them drs. When its time to die you should get some dignity. I respected what Dr Kevorkian did. Too bad they put him in jail

Sorry to hear that dude I feel the same way. Nowadays with medicare and the cuts there are many. They do not cut too much when it comes to keeping an old person alive so that person could have up to 1 mill of bills and still die anyway. jmo but its all about feathering the pockets. There is a certain point when it doesn't make sense to keep someone alive. Im all for dying with dignity instead of dying with drool running out your mouth.

[Monty]

Time heals.
From my experiences, the sense of loss never leaves, but the good memories and experiences eventually balance out the sense of loss to some extent.

[surfwalker]

Tough, tough subject, but it's there. Seems like you worry about illness/death, for yourself and those close to you 50 per cent of the time and the other 50 per cent you actually live it. Nothings easy. To make decisions on some one else life is very tough. To take some one off a machine, to see that last breath or tear flow from their face, just tough. I experienced it with my FIL. But, like Monty stated- the memories and experiences keep that individual alive within us. 'ats why I always say that my walks are done alone, but I'm never lonely.

My parents are still doing pretty good- Dad (89), Mom(87). Mom was in the hospital for awhile this year and Dad broke both his hips at different times, also this year. They can't do much around the house anymore (they still yell at me, though). I help them in any way I can. Doctor appointments, shopping, around the house stuff, whatever they need. That's how I cope with it. They were there for me and I kinda drove them crazy. I stop to see them every night, make sure all is OK. Maybe I'm selfish because it makes me feel better.

Like I said, nothings easy, you just do things, one at a time, You just accept it. I just hope that I'm around to help them until they don't need it. Life/Feelings- same thing.

[surfstix1963]

Tough subject for sure in my moms case she knew something was wrong but felt she was interfering with her families lives and didn't say nothing until the infection got into her blood. then things became very obvious something was wrong this could have been a simple fix of a Dr. visit and antibiotics and turned into a near death experience.

We all have our lives and things to do don't give up on them you will be sorry.
We have discussed things about death. she made it very clear if a machine is keeping her alive to unplug it (I have the same views I'm not making Drs rich IMO I'm no longer living)

I'm her health care proxy so I have to make that call and although it will be tough I will respect her wishes. Fortunately they have finally gotten the infection under control after a week of some serious antibiotics. One thing I have found is family can put some major glitches in decision making. some don't want to be bothered (sad)

if they are human they will realize that it is too damn late you can't bring them back, these people are parents grand parents & they loved raised and cared for you in your life. It sickens me the way some family members react trust me I have a huge hole in my moms wall that my siblings drove me to put my fists through but that can be fixed losing my mom cannot. I also have a MIL with dementia in our home watching this everyday is very draining on a family and relationships so a little help would have been nice with my Mom.

I do believe when it is your time it is your time. all you can do is your best and nothing or nobody can play God. I leave that decision making to him. Fishing is the only thing that takes me away from my problems for awhile. so I could care less about catching - that beach or rockpile is my therapy.

[bababooey]

I think that every day we are alive we can't discount the possibility that we could be run over by a mack truck. We could have a nagging cough go to the Dr and find out it is cancer. Living each day t the fullest is something I try. Thoughts go out to you guys who have had sick family members. I went through it with my grandpa. It hurts us all. As monty said it gets better with time. Great thread.

[DarkSkies]

Live each day like it's your last.
2 things I try to go by, everything else is gravy. My Aunt passed away from cancer last year. It's hard to watch. It also got me a little angry how they try to keep folks alive even when there is no real quality of life. All about racking the bills up for some of them drs. When its time to die you should get some dignity.

Good philisophy, you never know when it might be your last.....My deepest sympathies, led.

There is a certain point when it doesn't make sense to keep someone alive. Im all for dying with dignity instead of dying with drool running out your mouth.

Well said, jigfreak.
I agree with this as well. One of the Doctors took Pebbles aside, and said:
"You know, with the modern technology we have, we can keep someone alive virtually forever. The question you and your family members want to ask yourselves is what is the quality of life at that point, and if your loved one would have wanted to keep living if that were the case."

This was pretty impressive to me. We have learned a lot about the medical field advances and compassionate health care in the time he was sick. Pebbles Dr took her into a private room, and had tears coming down her face as she explained it to her. They now have specialists who deal in compassionate care...it's amazing for me to see this level of empathy from our Doctors, who throughout my childhood and young adulthood had been somewhat stoic and seemed void of emotion, in the clinical sense.

This shift in health care (maybe not in all places) was a breath of fresh air, and very re-assuring to us.
It helped us to be in a position to make informed choices, and to help him die with dignity, which was his wish.




A quick plug for Overlook Hospital in Summit, one of the most advanced stroke/neurological units in the state. We felt that at all times, her Dad's care was the best it could be. Every night when we left the hospital, they told us they would call us immediately if his condition changed so we could drive up and be with him if he got worse. They also called every morning at 7am (shift change) to let us know how the night went, and any changes in condition.

Additionally, they have a Caregivers Center, the only one in the state as of now, which is a few rooms, privacy spaces, kitchenette, and sufficient seating so that families who are going through this, can stop in, grab a cup of coffee, snack, hot chocolate, or a quick nap, as they deal with family members going through end of life ups and downs....we felt this was fantastic, and cannot say enough good words about the Overlook Health Care system.

[DarkSkies]

I think that every day we are alive we can't discount the possibility that we could be run over by a mack truck. We could have a nagging cough go to the Dr and find out it is cancer. Living each day t the fullest is something I try. Thoughts go out to you guys who have had sick family members. I went through it with my grandpa. It hurts us all. As monty said it gets better with time. Great thread.

Well put bababooey. These weeks seeing death so prevalent in those rooms, and the grieving families that had to go through it, has caused a shift in some of my thinking. Life can change for us in a single moment. If we are not living the lives we want to live, we may want to ask ourselves "Why not?".....if someone told you tomorrow you only had 3 months to live, is there anything we would do differently?

Time heals.
From my experiences, the sense of loss never leaves, but the good memories and experiences eventually balance out the sense of loss to some extent.

That's exactly what they told us, and what the priest said in the sermon. I'll come back to this when I get a chance, but good point, Monty...very meaningful words...
For some, mentioning the deceased and the memories is too painful....I get that....but for me....I like to go over stories, funny, embarrasing, or in some way amusing, that helps us to remember the person who left us......I like to do this around holidays and their birthday....some words of comfort to help us remember them....in that way....in my eyes, even though they are gone....their memories still live on......

Tough, tough subject, but it's there. Seems like you worry about illness/death, for yourself and those close to you 50 per cent of the time and the other 50 per cent you actually live it. Nothings easy. To make decisions on some one else life is very tough. To take some one off a machine, to see that last breath or tear flow from their face, just tough. I experienced it with my FIL. But, like Monty stated- the memories and experiences keep that individual alive within us. 'ats why I always say that my walks are done alone, but I'm never lonely.

My parents are still doing pretty good- Dad (89), Mom(87). Mom was in the hospital for awhile this year and Dad broke both his hips at different times, also this year. They can't do much around the house anymore (they still yell at me, though). I help them in any way I can. Doctor appointments, shopping, around the house stuff, whatever they need. That's how I cope with it. They were there for me and I kinda drove them crazy. I stop to see them every night, make sure all is OK. Maybe I'm selfish because it makes me feel better.

Like I said, nothings easy, you just do things, one at a time, You just accept it. I just hope that I'm around to help them until they don't need it. Life/Feelings- same thing.

We drove my Mom crazy as well Surfwalker....the times we took advantage of her good nature were countless....we were bad....when we were young....and in the subsequent years of my sobriety I have tried to do everything I could to make up for it.....duty and honor are now important parts of my life that didn't seem to matter as much when I was younger.....

I think we all come to these realizations at different points in our lives...one thing I find lacking in (some of) the younger generation is the impatience for dealing with the healthcare of elderly parents.....it's tough to transition yourself to help a loved one with personal needs and some embarassing tasks that once were done by themselves.....but I feel as sons or daughters, it is our duty, and obligation, just as they cleaned our diapers, and stayed up with us all night when we had 102 degree fevers.......
I have extensive experience over the years with aging folks, seniors, and have seen a lot of them warehoused in institutions with minimal visits from family...this saddens me......I realize that we all have different circumstances in life, and some are not able physically to take care of elderly parents.....and some do, until it becomes too difficult, and then make the transition to Sr Housing......

So it's all about the individual, and their situation.......
However, I salute those, like surfwalker, surfstix and others, who still feel a sense of obligation to be the primary caregivers for aging parents....it's one of the toughest things we have to deal with in our adult lives.....

[DarkSkies]

then things became very obvious something was wrong this could have been a simple fix of a Dr. visit and antibiotics and turned into a near death experience.

We all have our lives and things to do don't give up on them you will be sorry.
We have discussed things about death. she made it very clear if a machine is keeping her alive to unplug it (I have the same views I'm not making Drs rich IMO I'm no longer living)

I'm her health care proxy so I have to make that call and although it will be tough I will respect her wishes. Fortunately they have finally gotten the infection under control after a week of some serious antibiotics. One thing I have found is family can put some major glitches in decision making. some don't want to be bothered (sad)

if they are human they will realize that it is too damn late you can't bring them back, these people are parents, grand parents & they loved raised and cared for you in your life. It sickens me the way some family members react trust me I have a huge hole in my moms wall that my siblings drove me to put my fists through but that can be fixed losing my mom cannot.

Fishing is the only thing that takes me away from my problems for awhile. so I could care less about catching - that beach or rockpile is my therapy.

All the things I highlighted I have seen or been through as well, Rich. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I know your situation has been particularly challenging......and it has had a lot of ups and downs....

2 things you mentioned should be discussed here further.....health care proxy and DNR....these are the key tools that we have in modern times to make sure the wishes of our loved ones will be followed......

1. Health Care Proxy

2. Living Will / DNR Options





I'll try to come back when I have some more time and go into them, for the benefit of those who are just learning about this process.....
If anyone else wants to help us understand their experiences in the meantime, feel free to go into detail about these or any other topics....


Thanks for all the opinions people. I know some of ya's were sharing some extremely personal stuff...but if it can help others, your words can have a great impact.......and may give some of us who are struggling with these issues some comfort.....

[CharlieTuna]

.....it's tough to transition yourself to help a loved one with personal needs and some embarassing tasks that once were done by themselves.....but I feel as sons or daughters, it is our duty, and obligation, just as they cleaned our diapers, and stayed up with us all night when we had 102 degree fevers.......

Cleaning diapers would presuppose that you were familiar with cloth diapers and the time when we actually cleaned them or exchanged with a diaper service instead of the disposables. Thought I was the only one who remembered that around here.

You make a good point. Our parents were there and invested in every part of our early lives. Changing diapers, worrying about fever, teaching us to ride bikes, etc. We should be able to make a few small sacrifices to help them in their senior years but we don't. Look at the growth of assisted living places like Sunrise as evidence that young folks feel a disconnect when it comes to taking care of the parents. The Harry Chapin song Cats in a Cradle comes to mind. We took care of my wife's parents and it was no picnic but we did it. We got a home health aide who lived in and as we lived nearby we were there before and after work. I think it should be every American's right to die as they want. If they want to exist in the home until their health fails it should be so. Unfortunately the system we have now pushes them to be institutionalized if the social worker recommends it. Then the nursing home gets the house. All that equity and all the years they have to work and save to have something, and it's down the tubes after that. Sorry for the rant have seen too many houses been given over to nursing homes lately. I must be getting old.

[surfstix1963]

One thing I can say about DNR & Health care proxy is seriously sit down with the family,have a talk, and try to get to a logical agreement HCP is one thing DNR is playing the grim reaper with a loved ones life,

I suggest the person that has to play that role be very strong because that decision will weigh heavily on them for life.I know it will be the toughest challenge in my life.I have made it very clear to my family I will do my best but once the machines are mentioned I will pull the trigger.There are also many variables(flaws) these days in the medical system that could run up some hefty bills to keep the machine going.

One other thing I want to touch base on if your parents are elderly, is to get in touch with a lawyer and see what you need to do in order to try and keep the Gov't from taking everything they have worked for in exchange for medical bills,I believe they look back 5 years they have talked about 7 yrs.IDK if that was passed.If you are elderly I don't want to sound out of place but you should sit down with your family and discuss these issues also have an updated Will.

I have also seen certain family members that want it all (they are usually the ones that do the least) & this causes families to break up hate each other, when you should be there for each other. Having some extra cash is always good but getting it at the cost of someones life is downright disgusting to me (Gold Diggers) the money won't last very long and you will be right back at square one minus a loved one.

Family is very important to myself and my wife I have already lost my Dad,Grandfather,Grandmother,Neice and brother I've experienced death from 12 y/o when my dad died. So keep those memories because that is the only thing you will be left with that no one can take away.

[bababooey]

Good points surfstix. You should be able to leave this world any way you want. Its important for your family to follow your wishes. Here is a guy who left exactly as he wanted to.

[surfstix1963]

We all should be able to go the way we want to, it is our life and death we are just asking the family to complete the final trip our way.I have already made my choices I want to be cremated and my ashes spread along my favorite stretch of beach my wife and children will be throwing my last cast I don't want to be buried and have this elaborate funeral that costs a ton of money,I would rather have that money spent on the living.

[DarkSkies]

All the things I highlighted I have seen or been through as well, Rich. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I know your situation has been particularly challenging......and it has had a lot of ups and downs....

2 things you mentioned should be discussed here further.....health care proxy and DNR....these are the key tools that we have in modern times to make sure the wishes of our loved ones will be followed......

1. Health Care Proxy

2. Living Will / DNR Options





I'll try to come back when I have some more time and go into them, for the benefit of those who are just learning about this process.....

1. Health Care Representative/Proxy - this is a good site that explains it in detail for NJ residents. Other states may have different language and requirements. Make sure you check the state you or loved one lives in for the correct one. Everyone who has parents or family getting older owes it to themselves to check this out. As surfstix said, it's a position of grave responsibility when someone chooses you as their health care rep/proxy.

http://www.state.nj.us/health/health...directives.pdf

"Understandably, the subjects of death, dying and our own incapacity are difficult to discuss with

others. Nonetheless, we at the Commission feel strongly that it is especially important to discuss yourfeelings and beliefs about these subjects with those who may become responsible for making decisions for you, such as family members, friends and your physician. Advance directives provide an important writtenstatement of your wishes to others, but direct communication is the key to insuring that those wishes are clearly understood by others. Candid conversation can significantly reduce the chances of disagreements among those who care for you, may relieve your loved ones of some of the heavy burdens of decision making, and lend additional assurance that your wishes will be respected."








PROXY DIRECTIVE--(Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care)

Designation of Health Care Representative

**(there are 3 different forms mentioned, beginning with the one mentioned above. This info can be found about halfway through the PDF. Although it seems lengthy, remember that these are decisions that pertain to the end of your life, and a time when you will be unable to make these desisions for yourself. As such, clarity of your intentions is extremely important. You don't want the person who you put in charge of your life and death, to have any doubts.)

[DarkSkies]

2. Living Will



Some good info on this:
http://www.healthynj.org/wellness/ad...directive.html

When you start to look at it, you begin to see that the Advanced directive and Living will can be thought of as interchangable terms. The Advanced Directive I posted in the previous post is IMO one of the strongest and comprehensive legal documents you can sign to make sure your wishes are carried out.

**As mentioned, the authors of the previous PDF stressed that communication among family members is key.





**I have been involved in several of these situations so far, and can tell those who haven't, that even though the communication is clear, there is usually doubt and questioning "Am I doing the right thing here?" as you make the decision to end someone's life, or take them off a breathing tube, etc...........

Do yourself and your loved ones a favor.....get this done before it's too late....help to take this burden off their shoulders, and make sure your wishes are known clearly.....it is one of the last gifts of reassurance you can give to someone, before you leave this world.

If anyone out there has had to deal with these circumstances or has anything else to add, I think it could benefit a lot of folks if you were to share it with us...thanks.

[storminsteve]

Thanks for posting the info ds. Will be passing it on to one of my uncles who is faced with something like this.