Brookhaven bans fishing at Shoreham Beach!

[bluesdude71]

Sent my letter. Was wondering if there are any updates?

[rpsurf5]

http://www2.timesreview.com/SUN/Stor..._fishermen_psh

That last paragraph sums it up, beach front residents trying to keep us off of "their" beach. I guess they have not heard of the Public Trust Doctrine. Really sickening that they have been able to do this.

Keep writing letters and emails if you have not already.

Groups like LIBBA, MSA , Kayak Fishing Association of New York and the Coalition of Recreational Fishing are working on this issue, stay tuned.

[stormchaser]

Found one copy of the Public Trust Doctrine on this site, under laws and regs. RP, I was wondering what your thoughts were about getting 50 or 100 of us together, and all going up there, peacefully, but with the intention of fishing, and letting News12 and other news organizations know that we are going up there?

We could do it on a Sat or Sunday when a lot of people would be able to make it?

I feel if a lot of us went up there, and again, did this peacefully, no aggressive statements, or confrontations, and let them know that we intended to exercise our rights under the Public trust doctrine, I don't think they would arrest us. If they did, they would have to defend going against the Public Trust Doctrine in court.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any town, in NY or NJ, wants to try a case that might prove to be a landmark, especially if they stood to lose, and set a precedent?

Since you seem to be a driving force behind organizing people on this, rp, what say you?

Do you think we could pull it off? Could we get enough guys together? How about if we publicized it weeks ahead of time, on a few websites? I'm thinking if we showed up with a minimum of 50 or 100 fishernem, respectful but assertive of our rights, they just would not want to arrest us without starting a tremendous legal battle. Even if arrests were made, I would do it.

What's the worst they can charge us with, disorderly persons? Trespassing? None of that stuff could be proved in court, it they chose to take it that far. I'm sick of the syrupy sweet smiles put out by officials, while we all know privately they detest us.

Sometimes you have to be willing to take a stand on something. I'm willing, rp, do you think you can rally some other guys to do this, or is it a stupid idea? I just feel we have to do something more, letters aren't cutting it anymore.




The Public Trust Doctrine
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ead.php?t=1044

The set of laws that guarantees all people rights to the water. First set by the Roman Emperor Justinian around A.D. 500 as part of Roman civil law, the Public Trust Doctrine establishes the publics right to full use of the seashore as declared in the following quotation from Book II of the Institutes of Justinian:

“By the law of nature these things are common to all mankind – the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea.

No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitations, monuments, and the buildings, which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations.”

Influenced by Roman civil law, the tenets of public trust were maintained through English common Law and adopted by the original 13 colonies.

Following the American Revolution, the royal right to tidelands was vested to the 13 new states, then to each subsequent state, and has remained a part of public policy into the present time.

Through various judicial decisions, the right of use upheld by the Public Trust Doctrine has been incorporated into many state constitutions and statutes, allowing the public the right to all lands, water and resources held in the public trust by the state, including those in New Jersey.



Here's the link:

http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/pub...s_handbook.pdf

[stormchaser]

RP, I c&P the article so people could read it, hope you don't mind:




Fishing prohibition raises concerns over beach access

Fishermen say 'No fishing' signs violate their rights

By Peggy Spellman Hoey

Sun photo by Peter Blasl Stan Hetterich (left), owner of Stan's Bait and Tackle in Rocky Point, with fisherman Matt Hentschel. The pair is not happy about new signs prohibiting fishing at Shoreham Beach. SHOREHAM--Most anglers are gone fishin' this season, though not at Shoreham Beach.

While local residents are happy with Brookhaven officials' decision to place "No fishing" signs at Shoreham Beach -- one of several measures, including a security camera, entrance gate and lifeguard, implemented for safety purposes -- local fishermen have their hackles up fearing their beach access has been restricted.
Stan Hentschel, owner of the Rocky Point Fishing Stop, said he has watched beach access on the North Shore whittled away since the '80s. First government officials banned beach driving, then they placed"No parking" signs on public access roads; now, he says, all that remains of fishing access on the North Shore from Cedar Beach in Mount Sinai to Shoreham is eight night-fishing parking spots.

"Down at Cedar Beach they are elbow to elbow," he said.
Mr. Hentschel believes the "No fishing" signs violate the Public Trust Doctrine, which allows residents beach access below the mean high water mark.

"I almost died in Vietnam," Mr. Hentschel said. "I'll be damned if someone got on that beach and told me I couldn't walk on that beach or fish on that beach."

Willie Young, president of the New York Coalition of Recreational Anglers, a lobbying group of about 9,000, said the organization will request a meeting on beach access with town officials in light of this recent issue.

"There's been access issues before on the North Shore," Mr. Young said of a 15-mile stretch of private beaches. "The civic associations try to keep the residents out, but this is a town beach and we have the right to fish there."

Deputy Supervisor Jim LaCarrubba, however, disagreed that officials are trying to restrict the fishermen's beach access, because it is written into the town code that fishing is prohibited at all beaches and parks throughout the bathing season. He also noted that night fishing is prohibited at Shoreham Beach as well.
"We are looking to protect the interests of all the residents. We have been dealing with a lot of issues with the Shoreham Beach property," he added.

In 2006, a Coram woman who stayed after hours died after being struck by lightning, and a Patchogue man drowned near the jetty. In August 2007, town officials announced more than 100 arrests for incidents ranging from trespassing to illegal ATV use and over-fishing at the beach.

Under the town code, Brookhaven public information officer Kevin Molloy explained, fishermen could be issued field appearance tickets for fishing both during beach hours and after dusk, because of the prohibition on night fishing. If issued a ticket, fishermen would then be required either to appear in court or pay a fee, he said. Either fishing offense is punishable by a fine of up to $250 or 10 days in jail, according to Mr. Molloy. Also, fishermen caught after dusk at Shoreham Beach could be issued parking violations, which run about $50, he said. Mr. Molloy also noted the town does not have jurisdiction outside Shoreham Beach. The private property surrounding the beach falls under the jurisdiction of the Suffolk County Police Department, he said.

Despite the town's stance, Mr. LaCarrubba said the supervisor's office would not likely turn the fishermen away if they wanted to meet and discuss the beach access issue.

John Skinner, a Wading River resident and an editor for Nor'east Saltwater Fishing magazine, noted that while most fishermen are solitary individuals who have no desire to fish while bathers are present, they should at least be able to walk below the mean high water mark from Wading River to Orient Point, despite private property owners' gripes. The town's recent fishing ban could set a beach access restriction precedent elsewhere, he said.

"This is a Brookhaven thing where you got people saying, 'This is mine,'ââ" Mr. Skinner said of private property owners.
Second District Councilwoman Jane Bonner noted that in past summers people accessing the town beach to fish would often trespass on the private beach property nearby. It was not uncommon to find these individuals sleeping on the beach and an assortment of debris ranging from bait containers to broken glass, and even dirty diapers, she said.

Since Ms. Bonner has had the signs installed, she said, residents are ecstatic that the town code is finally being enforced on the beach.

"The residents didn't feel safe when they went with their children to the beach," she said.

Kathy Anderson, a resident of Shoridge Hills, one of the private beaches affected by public safety issues on Shoreham Beach, said residents feel much safer with the new security measures.
"I understand [Councilwoman Bonner] is catching some heat from the fishermen, which I understand how they feel," Ms. Anderson said, "but this is a private beach. We weren't able to enjoy our private beach."

[stormchaser]

Sun photo by Peter Blasl Stan Hetterich (left), owner of Stan's Bait and Tackle in Rocky Point, with fisherman Matt Hentschel. The pair is not happy about new signs prohibiting fishing at Shoreham Beach. SHOREHAM--Most anglers are gone fishin' this season, though not at Shoreham Beach.


1. If you could get Matt Hentschel to lead a group of us, at least 50 or 100, with news cameras, I think it would be political suicide for them to arrest us. Even if they did, how could they ever defend against this in court?

"Down at Cedar Beach they are elbow to elbow," he said.
Mr. Hentschel believes the "No fishing" signs violate the Public Trust Doctrine, which allows residents beach access below the mean high water mark.

"I almost died in Vietnam," Mr. Hentschel said. "I'll be damned if someone got on that beach and told me I couldn't walk on that beach or fish on that beach."


2. Maybe Willie Young could be there, too? This guy has to have some juice, and he's right, they can't legislate what we can do below the mean high water mark. There's no way they could ever win in court.
Willie Young, president of the New York Coalition of Recreational Anglers, a lobbying group of about 9,000, said the organization will request a meeting on beach access with town officials in light of this recent issue.

"There's been access issues before on the North Shore," Mr. Young said of a 15-mile stretch of private beaches. "The civic associations try to keep the residents out, but this is a town beach and we have the right to fish there."

Deputy Supervisor Jim LaCarrubba, however, disagreed that officials are trying to restrict the fishermen's beach access, because it is written into the town code that fishing is prohibited at all beaches and parks throughout the bathing season. He also noted that night fishing is prohibited at Shoreham Beach as well.
"We are looking to protect the interests of all the residents. We have been dealing with a lot of issues with the Shoreham Beach property," he added.


3. What does a woman struck by lightning and a "swimmer" drowning near a jetty, or dirty diapers, have to do with fishermen? When was the last time any of you took your baby fishing with you??
In 2006, a Coram woman who stayed after hours died after being struck by lightning, and a Patchogue man drowned near the jetty. In August 2007, town officials announced more than 100 arrests for incidents ranging from trespassing to illegal ATV use and over-fishing at the beach.


4. I don't see how they would arrest 50 or 100 fishermen who came up with news cameras. It's like a chess game. Arresting us would be the first gambit in a game that they would end up in checkmate, because their laws could then be challenged in court, as being superceded by the public trust doctrine. this would be a bad position to put themselves in, because if they lost, other towns would face the same issues, threat of lawsuits that they could not win.

Eventually, they would have to make an agreement with the fishermen, allowing us to claim our already existing access below the mean high water line.
Under the town code, Brookhaven public information officer Kevin Molloy explained, fishermen could be issued field appearance tickets for fishing both during beach hours and after dusk, because of the prohibition on night fishing. If issued a ticket, fishermen would then be required either to appear in court or pay a fee, he said. Either fishing offense is punishable by a fine of up to $250 or 10 days in jail, according to Mr. Molloy. Also, fishermen caught after dusk at Shoreham Beach could be issued parking violations, which run about $50, he said. Mr. Molloy also noted the town does not have jurisdiction outside Shoreham Beach. The private property surrounding the beach falls under the jurisdiction of the Suffolk County Police Department, he said.

Despite the town's stance, Mr. LaCarrubba said the supervisor's office would not likely turn the fishermen away if they wanted to meet and discuss the beach access issue.

John Skinner, a Wading River resident and an editor for Nor'east Saltwater Fishing magazine, noted that while most fishermen are solitary individuals who have no desire to fish while bathers are present, they should at least be able to walk below the mean high water mark from Wading River to Orient Point, despite private property owners' gripes. The town's recent fishing ban could set a beach access restriction precedent elsewhere, he said.


5. This is one example why there will be problems for years to come. This woman has no concept or understanding of the Public Trust Doctrine, so to her we will always be tresspasers, unless we can prove in court that we are not.
Kathy Anderson, a resident of Shoridge Hills, one of the private beaches affected by public safety issues on Shoreham Beach, said residents feel much safer with the new security measures.
"I understand [Councilwoman Bonner] is catching some heat from the fishermen, which I understand how they feel," Ms. Anderson said, "but this is a private beach. We weren't able to enjoy our private beach."

I would not look forward to getting arrested, but the question you have to ask yourself as fishermen is: What measures am I willing to take to preserve my rights as a fisherman? Will I stand up and do something about it, or just stand idly by while others do the work for me?

[rpsurf5]

Found one copy of the Public Trust Doctrine on this site, under laws and regs. RP, I was wondering what your thoughts were about getting 50 or 100 of us together, and all going up there, peacefully, but with the intention of fishing, and letting News12 and other news organizations know that we are going up there?

We could do it on a Sat or Sunday when a lot of people would be able to make it?

I feel if a lot of us went up there, and again, did this peacefully, no aggressive statements, or confrontations, and let them know that we intended to exercise our rights under the Public trust doctrine, I don't think they would arrest us. If they did, they would have to defend going against the Public Trust Doctrine in court.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any town, in NY or NJ, wants to try a case that might prove to be a landmark, especially if they stood to lose, and set a precedent?

Since you seem to be a driving force behind organizing people on this, rp, what say you?

Do you think we could pull it off? Could we get enough guys together? How about if we publicized it weeks ahead of time, on a few websites? I'm thinking if we showed up with a minimum of 50 or 100 fishernem, respectful but assertive of our rights, they just would not want to arrest us without starting a tremendous legal battle. Even if arrests were made, I would do it.

What's the worst they can charge us with, disorderly persons? Trespassing? None of that stuff could be proved in court, it they chose to take it that far. I'm sick of the syrupy sweet smiles put out by officials, while we all know privately they detest us.

Sometimes you have to be willing to take a stand on something. I'm willing, rp, do you think you can rally some other guys to do this, or is it a stupid idea? I just feel we have to do something more, letters aren't cutting it anymore.




The Public Trust Doctrine
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ead.php?t=1044

The set of laws that guarantees all people rights to the water. First set by the Roman Emperor Justinian around A.D. 500 as part of Roman civil law, the Public Trust Doctrine establishes the publics right to full use of the seashore as declared in the following quotation from Book II of the Institutes of Justinian:

“By the law of nature these things are common to all mankind – the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea.

No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitations, monuments, and the buildings, which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations.”

Influenced by Roman civil law, the tenets of public trust were maintained through English common Law and adopted by the original 13 colonies.

Following the American Revolution, the royal right to tidelands was vested to the 13 new states, then to each subsequent state, and has remained a part of public policy into the present time.

Through various judicial decisions, the right of use upheld by the Public Trust Doctrine has been incorporated into many state constitutions and statutes, allowing the public the right to all lands, water and resources held in the public trust by the state, including those in New Jersey.



Here's the link:

http://www.nj.gov/dep/cmp/access/pub...s_handbook.pdf

This is a really good idea, I think through the various web sites and organizations we could get a big turnout. Logisitics would need to be worked out to make sure town was not able to thwart this effort and also in case someone got arrested that person was represented.

Right now various fishing organizations are involved with this. The New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing is going to write a letter to the town and request a meeting, that looks to be the next step. The Coalitions sole existence is to protect fishermans rights and lobby politicians. This organization was started by Montauk Surfcaster Association who has a good track record of fighting for our rights. After that we will need to see what happens, but I would think a demonstration could be in order if needed.

Stormchaser, where do you live ? Are you a member of any of these organizations ? If not, it might be worth it to join LIBBA , MSA or any of the local surf clubs. You might be interested in coming to one of the meetings, let me know.

John

[stormchaser]

John, I live near the back of Jamaica bay, but fish anywhere I think might be good, so I travel to fish a lot. Maybe I came off a little too strong in that post, but I would be willing to be arrested if it was for fishermens rights.

Already heard of LI beach buggy association, but I mostly walk to my spots, no buggy pass. What's the MSA? Any info?

[rpsurf5]

John, I live near the back of Jamaica bay, but fish anywhere I think might be good, so I travel to fish a lot. Maybe I came off a little too strong in that post, but I would be willing to be arrested if it was for fishermens rights.

Already heard of LI beach buggy association, but I mostly walk to my spots, no buggy pass. What's the MSA? Any info?

Dont worry , you definitely did not come off too strong. We need people like you are willing to stand up for our rights.

Even though you dont ride the beach, you should become a member of LIBBA (http://www.libba.com/index1.htm) . They fight for beach access and fishermans rights regardless of whether it is a driving issue or not. Its cheap , It is $25 a year. The number of people in these organizations shows strength and the dues help fund the organization so they can be a healthy club.

MSA is Montauk Surfcaster Association (http://www.surfcasters.org/), they also fight for fishermans rights all over the island.I fish Montauk rarely but I am in this organization because the more people they have, the stronger they are and the louder their voice is. MSA has been very active and successful at fighting for rights over the years.

Join both if you can, it would really help.

I know one of the possible options for this fight is to go to court , money is needed for this , so the more money organizations like MSA have the better.

There is also another organization called The Coalition of Recreational Fishing, this group was formed recently by the leadership of MSA and its sole purpose is to protect fishermans rights and lobby politicians. This group is made up of 12 clubs and fishing organizations under the umbrella of The Coalition.


And of course if you are a kayaker , you can join the Kayak Fishing Association of New York (www.kfa-ny.org). I am in this club and on the board of directors. We have been very active on the Shoreham issue and were also involved with an access issue at CBB. J-Bay is a great place to kayak, you should get a kayak and fish there !

John

[stormchaser]

John, I fish the channels back in Inwood, some deep water there, You can see the planes take off when you are fishing. Fish were holding there till about a month ago.

Always wanted to check out a kayak, gives you more access. Maybe next year will be the year. Appreciate those sites, will check them out. In the meantime, appreciate reading about Shoreham because I fish the NS. Let me know if you are getting a group of fishermen together to protest, I'm in.

[rpsurf5]

Willie Young had called Supervisor Foleys office requesting a meeting to speak about this issue. One of the commissioners called Willie back and the bottom line is the town is standing their ground that there is no fishing allowed at Shoreham Beach.

The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court.

Also, if anyone knows of a lawyer in Brookhaven town who would be good to fight this battle, please let me know. My email address is egoer@aol.com

Stay tuned.

John

[plugcrazy]

"The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court."

Just saw this thread. I'm in. If you want more letters, I will send one to them. You want people to go and get ticketed, I'm in. Let us know how to help. This is bullcrap, it's gotta be stood up to. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I learned a lot about the public trust from this. Thanks guys, had no idea, just always assumed they could do what they wanted.

[rpsurf5]

"The next steps are an expanded letter writing campaign and also Willie has lined up some people who are willing to go to the beach, fish, get a ticket and fight this in court."

Just saw this thread. I'm in. If you want more letters, I will send one to them. You want people to go and get ticketed, I'm in. Let us know how to help. This is bullcrap, it's gotta be stood up to. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I learned a lot about the public trust from this. Thanks guys, had no idea, just always assumed they could do what they wanted.

Thanks for the support. I sent you an email, please email back. Where do you live ?

[DarkSkies]

rpsurf, I don't have pm priveleges yet, but I'm in too. If you can coordinate this for a day on the weekend, I would like to go and get ticketed. I never fished Shoreham, but there's strength in numbers, and I would like to help. Please e-mail me with the details. Thanks, and great job coordinating this thing, we have the same problems in Monmouth county, NJ.

[rpsurf5]

The New York Coalition of Recreational Fishing had it's bi-monthly meeting tonight and this was a hot topic of conversation. At this point The Coalition is pursuing a possible resolution within some contacts within the town. If this does not bear any fruit, then possible next steps include people getting ticketed and an ensuing court fight as well as possibly a large gathering at the beach by fisherman with print and TV media in attendance.

Stay tuned.....

John

[DarkSkies]

very cool, John. I went and fished Ct over the weekend. They have some terrible access isssues up there which made me appreciate what we have in NY and NJ.

It also made me realize that we have to fight for what we have or it will be lost, and we won't get it back.

I'm willing to get ticketed to save NY access. Just let me know, I'm in.

[captnemo]

Nice going on the pressure, rp. I'm really not a surf guy, sometimes yes when we take the family to the beach. I understand the importance of keeping this thing in the limelight. Keep up the good fight.

[pinhead44]

Smart move. Try to work it out behind the scenes. If not, we should be prepared to organize.

I'm betting that we'll have to go the protest route. Based upon the earlier comments made by Ms Bonner, it seems she hates fishermen, and wishes we would just go away. But we won't.

[stormchaser]

Nice work, rp.

[rpsurf5]

Wanted to give everyone an update on this situation.

Since Labor Day , the town has completely closed Shoreham Beach for the season. There is no fishing, no boating, no swimming, the beach is CLOSED. It has never been this way in past years. It seems like the local politicians and residents have taken this one step further in trying to turn public beaches private. Their first attempt at this was thinly veiled by banning fishing by using real or imagined issues. Now it is 100% clear what they are trying to do by closing this beach to everyone.

We can not let this stand.

There is a meeting on September 16th at the VFW Hall in Rocky Point on King Road (2nd right off Broadway from 25A going north) at 7PM. This meeting will be attended by local politician Jane Bonner, various civic associations from the beach area, the Brookhaven Business and Community Alliance and anyone else who wants to attend from the public.

If you care about your rights as a fisherman and taxpayer, whether you fish here or not , please attend this meeting and make yourself heard. We especially need residents from the town to attend. This can be an emotional issue for some, so if you attend the meeting please conduct yourself in a professional, respectful manner. Hopefully the town is willing to work this issue out , if not we will have to move forward with other political and legal options.

If anyone has any questions please PM me.

John

[pinhead44]

Thanks for the update, RP. Don't know anyone who's a homeowner there, but I might be able to attend that meeting. If not, I will tell my friends about it.

Question - you don't recommend a lot of fishermen showing up to show support, if we don't live there? Wouldn't it be a powerful thing if a lot of us showed up?