Member
Everyone from anywhere is encouraged to come , so please come down. Local presence is key though, locals hold more weight then non-locals , especially when it comes to politicians who only understand votes.
Definitely come down whether you live in Brookhaven or not , access issues affect fisherman everywhere, it sets bad precedent if they get away with it and good precedent for fisherman everywhere if we win this battle.
bump for brookhaven, meeting is tonight
Administrator
The meeting finished a while ago. It wasn't as positive as we would have liked, and the "process" is way too slow for my type A personality, but it looks like some progress was made.
Some of the highlights:
(Note: pics will come in the next few days as I get to them, fishin has been too good lately. If anyone has any corrections to what I observed, I would appreciate the help)
LEGAL MUMBO JUMBO AND MANEUVERING:
- The meeting was run by the BBCA, a year old organization formed to address the needs of the businessmen and the residents simultaneously. Joe Kessel is the chair, web address is www.BB-CA.org
In the beginning, a person from Jane Bonner's office read a copy of a "resolution" that was recently passed. The key things I heard were that the town was in the process of giving fishermen access back, and that there was a discussion of fees for a nighttime parking pass.
I was not clear as to the whole thing, and in anyone could get a copy of that resolution and post it, it would help.
As of now, the gates have been locked since July 4?
Ms. Bonner did not show up. I was surprised, thought she might have taken this opportunity to address some concerns, and maybe help the surf community better understand the pressures she is facing. The BBCA said that she had not planned to show up originally.
It was suggested that one the main issues was an enforcement problem, and people should apply pressure to the town for more consistent enforcement.
Some questions were raised about the original intent to use the beach as a bathing beach with a maximum capacity of 300 in an ordinance passed many years ago. However questions were also raised about why fishermen were allowed to fish that beach all that time contrary to the original ordinance.
There was also a question raised (by me) regarding the Public Trust Doctrine, and if anyone knew if the town could withstand a legal challenge to these constitutionally protected rights.
A diplomatic and reasoned answer given by Joe Kessel was that he was not as versed in those issues as he would like to be, but he understood that in some instances of "public safety concerns" access could be restricted.
This is the same type of end run they are trying to pull on the NJ jetty and MoCo beach access - where they say they can put up restrictions because of the inherent danger of jetty fishing.
However, I believe in this case if it was tried in court, they would lose.
Tackle shop owner Stanley Hentschel, now famous from all the TV and radio interviews he is doing,presented a very mature voice of reason here. He knew his material, and captivated those listening to him.
He stated that the Public Trust Doctrine has been challenged 5 times in the last 3 years, and the towns that tried to restrict access in violation of these constitutionally protected rights lost in court each time.
I'm thinking that the town is acutely aware that they would lose a Public Trust Doctrine challenge in court. This would also give them flack from other municipalities in LI who would blame them for opening this Pandora's box.
Ultimately, the town will settle with the fishermen, but it's taking too damn long for me, and I don't even fish there!
Administrator
Quality of Life issues:
Although at times emotionally charged, there was a good back and forth between fishermen and residents.
Residents are sick and tired of going to the beach in the morning and seeing the remains of bonfires, beer bottles, and trash. Although some of the trash could have been from careless fishermen, some of the residents agreed that forthe most part the people who may be responsible for the beer bottles and bonfires are the local kids going to the beach at night.
No one likes being blamed for something they didn't do. 98% of guys who fish that place are probably respectful and bring home trash other than their own, because they love to fish there. It's the same in NJ where I live, when the beer bottle and trash issues combined with some bad blitz fishermen behavior to close down some Long Branch areas. All the while, we knew it was the children of some of these residents who were partying and vandalizing, yet we were blamed for some of it.
At least tonight in the VFW Hall, there was a consensus that perhaps they went too far in blaming the fishermen for everything.
Administrator
Emotional attachment to fishing Shoreham:
There were several very powerful statements from fishermen who have fished that place their whole lives. Some may have seemed agitated, but I felt they spoke from the heart. To hear some of these guys talk about the years they have fished there, and how they feel disrespected, was moving.
Some of these guys are vets, and have served their country admirably. There has to be a way to work this out.
There were also some good points made by Willie Young, MSA president. He stated that there is over 250 miles of shoreline along the North and South shores, yet there are only 14 public access points for fishing.
How fair to the public is that?
Senior Member
DS - Glad to read your report. The more they stall the longer they have to restrict access. Hope it gets resolved soon.
Administrator
FINAL RESOLUTION:
The meeting ended with a plea for representatives of the fishermen to again come and meet with the town council?
Not sure about this, I thought the original intent of this meeting was to get things resolved tonight?
This type of process is way too slow for me, that's why I'll never run for political office.
Maybe RPSurf could chime in and let me know if he felt there was progress made. The best part was that although people were irritated, the fishermen didn't let it turn into a shouting match. We just want to fish, and don't want the hassles.
But make no mistake about it - about 90 people showed up tonight, people are angry about this. If access is not granted, the town can expect more support from all the web sites and organizations concerned about access. I drove 85 miles to get there. I would do it again. I am willing to be ticketed for tresspassing if the other people there tonight are willing as well.
As someone originally suggested, they do have to address the concerns of the homeowners, but there are ways to do that with greater enforcement and bigger penalties for violations.
They should not address it on the backs of fishermen, or they could end up with a bigger loss than they bargained for in court. I think they know that, hope this can all be worked out without a court fight.
Administrator
Shoreham Beach Clean Up:
Date: Sat Oct 4,2008
Time: 3-5pm
Location: Shoreham beach
Brookhaven provides gloves and garbage bags
The above clean up was proposed by Eileen R Weilbacher, a local resident.
Joe, in this case, hope it's ok to promote her website, she did organize the cleanup and all?
www.BHealthyNow.com Certified Holistic Health Counselor
It would be nice if some fishermen could join in. Even though we didn't make the mess, it's the right thing to do to keep the residents on your side.
I have access to some restricted areas in MoCo NJ chiefly because I approached some local residents, chatted with them a bit, and asked if I could fish there. Or I would be in a permitted area, and ended up walking across their back frontage on the high tide line, and picked up trash as I went along. Because of that, I have acces to areas today that others may trouble getting to.
It's the same here. Normally, in NJ the fishing clubs organize the spring and fall beach cleanups anyway.
I am sure all you LI guys do more than your share, I'm not questioning that. Just suggesting that it would be in the spirit of good neighbors for some guys to pitch in that day if you can make it. I'm fishing a tournament that day, so I won't be there.
But I hope to be at the next meeting, we can't let this issue fade, or access will be lost like dominoes toppling. That's why I drove 85 miles.
Hope y'all liked my report. A little long winded,but I didn't want to leave anything out for the guys who couldn't make it.
Pics to come later.
Senior Member
Originally Posted by DarkSkies
wtg, Dark, good report, felt like I was there.
I'm wondering if ya get paid by the word?Hope y'all liked my report. A little long winded,
Pics to come later.
Member
Darkskies , thanks for taking the time out and driving such a long distance to go to this meeting , it is greatly appreciated ! Also, thanks for the recap of the meeting. All the letters, emails, phone calls, TV appearance, the fishing organizations supporting this effort really matter. The town obviously is feeling the legal, moral and political pressure. Without the protests from everyone who has contributed to this, left unchallenged they would never restore fishing there. Thanks to everyone who went to the meeting and who has helped support this cause.
I did speak to Stan Hentschel who owns Rocky Point Fishing Stop. Stan has lived , fished and run his business in that area for 30 plus years. He better then anyone knows the area and the situation there with beach access, he has been fighing these issues for years. Stan was very encouraged by this meeting and thinks it went very well. The Brookhaven Business Coalition along with representation of the fishermen and beach associations have a meeting with the town in the beginning of October to resolve the issues. Parks and recreation department, public safety, Jane Bonner, town attorney, etc. willl be present.
I cant stress enough how important it is for us to be organized and stand up for our rights. All of the phone calls, emails , letters, the support of the various fishing organizations has really paid off here.
I did not expect this issue to be resolved quickly , with competing interests , politics, etc, one meeting was not going to solve this. But it seems like we have made great progress. I am hopeful that this will be resolved and fishing restored to Shoreham Beach.
Administrator
Some pics from the meeting 9-16
Outside, still, didn't forget Hanoi Jane.
Administrator
meeting room
Administrator
homeowners and surf guys in harmony
Administrator
Pete? Maniscalco, good speech about us all being immigrants from one place or another
Administrator
Wish I got a chance to meet this guy, he left right as the meeting ended. But he said some powerful things. He's a vet,
Sure he was a little agitated, but his passion for fishing came through in everything he said. You could tell he spoke from the heart.
Administrator
Stan Hentschel explains a point
Administrator
BB-CA Board
Administrator
Linda ______. This lady is the ultimate deal maker. she had an idea to move the access to Rocky Point. Wish I knew the area better, and could be more accurate whether it made sense or not.
But she made a lot of sense, she should run for office.
Administrator
Guy making a point that enforcement is selective.
Administrator
Stan Hentschel helping explain something
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