WHY should I care? WHY should I get involved? Why ME?

[DarkSkies]

If I told the story about catching 30 and 40# bass regularly in December in NJ and NY, from the surf, I'm sure a lot would want to hear it.

If I told the story about catching bass and blues in the fall run for days on end, people would want to hear that too.

If I told the story how the spring runs historically had you catching big bass both day AND night, people might pay attention.


Then why is it so hard to get people to pay attention to the fact that those days are distant memories?


Even the "great fall fishing" that people are talking about this year is a slim reminder of what it once was.

You don't have to go back 20 years to see this. Just go back 5, look at some catch reports, see for yourself.

[DarkSkies]

No judgement here, but I'm seeing this enough in the fishing world that I think it merits discussion. I'd like to use this thread as an ongoing dialogue as to what's happening to our fishing resources, laws and legislation, and why we should give an eff about it.



"Well Dark I only fish a few times a year, why should I care?"

"Well, I have a family to take care of, and small kids at home. They take up all my time."

"Ya know how bad this economy is!@!! The best I can do is hold on to my job. I don't have time to do anything else!!"

"Well why should I get involved in something if most everyone doesn't care about it anyway? Why should it be only on the shoulders of me and a few other guys?"

"What's the use? They're only going to shut down our fisheries anyway. Ya know what they say, you can't fight city hall!"


"Get involved? You sound like Chicken Little, dude!! There's plenty of bass and other fish to go around for everyone. You make too much out of nothing, dude, you're delusional!"


"Besides, even if we do get involved, what's the use? How can one person make a difference?"

"I'd rather leave it up to the other guys. I just don't have the time"

[DarkSkies]

As I said, all of the above are valid comments made by us as fishermen who need to balance fishing with family, maintaining a job, and being involved with all the responsibilities we face every day.

Maybe asking people to participate is asking too much? There's a small group of people who will always do what they can and become big supporters of any issues fishermen face.

Historically, there's a much larger % that can't be bothered. (the 90/10 rule which accounts for fishing success as well as political involvement)

We all know that, I don't expect to change that with my words alone. However, if I can grab the attention of a few of ya, and attract then interest of a few others to go and do some research, then I'll consider my long-winded posts to be worth the time and effort.

[DarkSkies]

(I'll fill in later)

[DarkSkies]

I wondered if all the guys out there were aware of the comprehensive nature of these changes. A brief overview:

Winter flounder:

Summer flounder/fluke:

Weakfish:


Grouper:

Red snapper:

Sea bass:

[DarkSkies]

So why should I give an eff about all the rest of those?

[DarkSkies]

Finchaser posted up some good reasons to get involved. I wanted to highlight them here:


[For all recreational fisherman which encompasses people who fish on party boats,charter boats and the beach. Plus most tackle shop owners fish.

I do all three, as many saltwater fisherman do. Surf is dead so we fish boats for cod,pollack,hake and ling.
Always fish boats for fluke,blackfish( fish that are good eating)
We no longer can fish for seabass, which is part of the fight the RFA and SSFFF are undertaking.

1.The commercial guys pay lobbyists to get there way from government ( large fish quota's) they want ours.

2.The RFA (Recreational Fishing Alliance) lobbies for us from the donations and memberships, thats where all the money goes.

Remember the money which goes to the economy is what government looks at. The money spent by beach fisherman is like a pimple on an elephants *** compared to boat sector. With out the boat sector we would have no quota's it would all be commercial,which government (DR. Lubchenco) wants.
The more fisheries they shut down the worse it's gonna be.

Just this year 2009 since Ms Lubchenco took over NOAA thanks to Obama (she came from PEW)
For 2009
1. Seabass shut down here
2. Red Snapper,Amberjack in florida shut down
3. Weakfish here

For 2010
a. seabass 2 months instead of 12 months
b. weakfish 1 fish instead of 6
c. new fluke regulations
d. possible new striper regulations


These are all fights the RFA is involved in to over turn,hence the seabass lawsuit against government,fighting to keep fluke and Striped bass regulations and quota the same. They fight to keep recreational fish quotas from going to the commercials and other fisheries from being shut down. There are 2 groups Recreational and Commercial period thats how fish are split up.

If we fish for them from land or sea really has no bearing we are recreational fisherman it's our quota we want to save. Remember with out bass and blues beach guy's disappear and no one would care especially beach front home owners who also support government against us with political contributions. ]

[DarkSkies]

Guys, kudos to all who are concerned enough to ask questions. There are no stupid questions. Learning is a process, and I commend anyone who wants to learn more.

The motive behind this thread is to educate people more so they will have the incentive to make conscious choices to keep learning, and possibly getting involved.

I may seem like I'm preaching here guys and girls, but this is our fishing future.

The Bill of Rights gives citizens the right to bear arms.
However it doesn't give us an automatic right to hunt or fish. As I see these rights trampled on, I can't help but become more and more involved.

I'm inviting some of you here to do that as well. I realize the decision is entirely up to you. I just want to be able to present some things which I hope will help you in your research.

[DarkSkies]

A lot of people laughed this off. If you think about it rationally, it's a brilliant campaign designed ultimately to prevent or restrict us from fishing.

These devious eco-freaks have designed a very intelligent campaign to get into the minds of schoolchildren and get them to think about fish as delicate creatures that they can adopt as pets or feel sorry for.

Make no mistake about it, the obvious intent is to turn the young generations against fishing. A very well placed strategic move in their war against anyone who fishes.

I could merely just say to PETA and the PEW trust people, but have realized that just because I give them an they won't go away.

In fact, they become stronger every year as they place their disciples in key gov't positions.

They get stronger, while we fishermen argue among ourselves.



A key disciple of theirs is Dr Jane Lubchenko, current head of the NOAA. This is the most powerful gov't organization today that has control over fishing rights.

OUR fishing rights.

And this one woman is in a position of power to shut off our rights as easily as someone turns off a light switch.

She has done this several times.

When will she come gunning to shut the striped bass fishing down?

Not possible, you say?
Don't bet your house on it.

[DarkSkies]

Let's hear what you guys have to say, positive or negative. That's the only way for people to learn.

[Monty]

Where as a few years ago I would look at what is better for everyone, its not that way anymore.
I love fishing, do not need to catch fish to have a great time. I am all for restricting catch limits, raising minimum sizes and eliminating the commercial fishing industry. In the case of the commercial fishing industry, I believe constant pressure on them to reduce their catch and bycatch amounts is required. I also have big problems with charters limiting out +bonus fish on stripers.
If there was an organization that I agreed with on their views and what they were doing to reach certain goals, I would join it and support it. I am sick and tired of compromise.
Till then I will choose for what "action, proposition, etc." I write letters and sign petitions for.
That said, do we really want the fishing to be better than this year? Have you read Finchaser's reports this year? What challange would it be for him if there were more fish?

[finchaser]

Where as a few years ago I would look at what is better for everyone, its not that way anymore.
I love fishing, do not need to catch fish to have a great time. I am all for restricting catch limits, raising minimum sizes and eliminating the commercial fishing industry. In the case of the commercial fishing industry, I believe constant pressure on them to reduce their catch and bycatch amounts is required. I also have big problems with charters limiting out +bonus fish on stripers.
If there was an organization that I agreed with on their views and what they were doing to reach certain goals, I would join it and support it. I am sick and tired of compromise.
Till then I will choose for what "action, proposition, etc." I write letters and sign petitions for.
That said, do we really want the fishing to be better than this year? Have you read Finchaser's reports this year? What challange would it be for him if there were more fish?

Sorry you feel that way,
And by the way fishing this year sucked compared to years past. It is on a decline from the mass desrtuction done by bunker snaggers and charter boats in Virginia and NC in the winter.

Fishing is always a challenge to me ,yes I catch allot of bass from skills I've learned through the years. Many of which were acquired during the moratorium when you sometimes fished for weeks to catch a fish. If things keep up as they are we will be back there in no time. The more we give up the more we will never get back. I'm not in favor of bonus tags but remember that started for the beach guys,the government let boats do what they do with them to help them stay in business and get the recreational guys off there backs.
Remember letters fall on deaf ears and are answered with a form letter from a government officials aid while commercial lobbists wine and dine polititions and take our fish.

Pick up a copy of Sport fishing magazine there is a full page editorial on recreational fisherman loosing the fight against government nation wide and are uniting to fight back.

[jimbob]

This really needs to be about fish and the ecosystem that supports them. It is not about who can have more of the resource, commercial or recreational. If we can protect the ecosystems, everyone will have a share available. If we keep arguing who should get more fish, nothing will change, the fisheries will collapse, and nobody gets anything.
Fisheries management is broken; it is obvious that what has been done in the past is not working. We need to implement progressive ideas to make management work to save and maintain fisheries. Everything I read about NOAA management plans sound good. If you are just going to decide that a manager is going to do a bad job because she was associated with an organization you don't agree with, you may be making a mistake. She has many positive qualities.
Don't fear new management policies, they might work. The old policies are failing. I would like to see all the people who say Obama's policies will not work, come up with thier own ideas on management.

[Monty]

Sorry you feel that way,
And by the way fishing this year sucked compared to years past. It is on a decline from the mass destruction done by bunker snaggers and charter boats in Virginia and NC in the winter.

I did not mean for it to sound like I want the stocks depleted if it sounded that way (I want the opposite). I feel better fishing management is needed (recreational and commercial). As you state if I interpreted what you wrote correctly, people cause this problem.
I feel they cannot go against their nature and do the things required for stocks to recover without guidance (laws).

I also feel its hypocritical for me to be on the same side as the charter boats catching limits + of 20 pound and up bass.
That is just how I feel (now).
I know these people need to make a living, but I just do not like them killing so many fish.


I just read the article by Doug Olander "To Late to Stop the Train Wreck?". Its alarming the things mentioned in the article are happening to the recreational fishermen. Its almost unbelievable that people on certain positions are so out of touch with what is happening. Its even more troubling with so many branches in the government are so out of touch with whats happening in the USA. Views today by government officials are so skewed by $$ that its disgusting. Not sure what to do about it.

And I do realize that fishing (catching) is on the down side and share your view on where it could be headed. My reference to how many fish you caught this year was a mere reflection of your skills .


Is it us (surf fisherman, boat fisherman, charter boats, party boats and tackle manufacturers) against commercials? Trying to divide the fish quota?
Trying to set fair limits for all that will enable the respective fish stocks to recover?

[DarkSkies]

Here's the link to their site.
http://www.stripersforever.org/Info/index

I noticed sometimes people aren't motivated to click a link. Here's some of the reasons why you should:

Initiatives, Past and Present

Below you will find links to some of Stripers Forever’s most important initiatives. This work is designed to convince policy makers to enhance wild striped bass populations by removing the pressures of market fishing. The best way to start supporting SF’s efforts is to Become A Member – free with a very short sign up through this link. Read on, and don’t hesitate to contact us with any questions.

1. Announcing H796 a bill to designate wild striped bass as game fish in the state waters of Massachusetts. We urge all of our members to go http://www.mass.gov/legis/, find their represenatives, and send them an e-mail today in your own words that asks them to support H796, a bill to make striped bass a game fish in Massachusetts.

2. Successful Opposition to Re-opening the EEZ produces Executive Order from President Bush - Stripers Forever was one of the leaders in the effort to keep commercial interests from reopening the EEZ which had been closed to the taking of striped bass since the collapse of the 1980s. With large stripers becoming more scare inshore some commercial interests had pressured the ASMFC to let them fish in this protected zone. Note - to view history of SF's opposition to reopening the EEZ click this link.

3. The Southwick Studies - The Southwick Study, commissioned by SF, compares the relative economic values of commercial and recreational striped bass fishing, and it takes the important step of determining what the socio-economic landscape would be like if commercial fishing for wild striped bass were to cease and the fishery managed purely for recreational/personal-use fishing.

They're also behind quite a few powerful and compelling articles on the state of striped bass today:

I read the Ted williams article several times. I thought he painted a compelling and detailed picture of what is happening today, much better than I ever could. There is no anger or rage in his article, just cold hard facts backing the conclusions he makes.

Ted Williams FR&R On Striped Bass Game Fish July 2009
Attachments:

TedWilliams July 2009.pdf
Size: 814K
Last Updated: 2009/7/2

The above attachment is a story by the noted author, Ted Williams which appears in the current issue of Fly Rod and Reel. The story addresses the state of striped bass in his home state of Massachusetts and Ted's thoughts on making striped bass a game fish. You'll find it a good read. Here is a brief summary of Ted's credentials.

Ted Williams - not the baseball player - has been writing full time on environmental issues, with special attention to fish and wildlife conservation, since 1970. In addition to freelancing for national magazines, he contributes regular feature-length conservation columns to Audubon and Fly Rod & Reel where he serves as Editor-at-Large and Conservation Editor respectively.

2009 Annual Fishing Survey Results
Attachments:

2009 Survey Results and Comments.xls
Size: 279K
Last Updated: 2009/12/12

2009Commentary.doc
Size: 76K
Last Updated: 2009/12/7

Key Comparisons 2003,4,5,6,7,8,9version 2.xls
Size: 33K
Last Updated: 2009/12/7

Stripers Forever's 2009 annual fishing survey results are in. This is our 7th consecutive year of polling guides and recreational anglers from SC to ME on their striped bass fishing experiences and preferences for management measures. The survey data comes from a very experienced group of fishermen representing all the major coastal striped bass states. This year’s results are particularly important since we used Survey Monkey software to obtain surveys from a record 906 respondents including 82 guides representing most coastal states. It will not surprise many of you to read that the overwhelming majority of anglers see the striper fishery as declining significantly. The results and our comments are in the attached documents above.

2009 YOY Disappointing

Attachments:

2009YOYPDFfinalSF.pdf
Size: 320K
Last Updated: 2009/10/21

The Chesapeake Bay, striped bass, young of the year survey for 2009 is out. While the number is better than last year's dismal result it is well below the long term trend, and will certainly not begin to support the fishing pressure currently applied to striped bass. David Ross PhD. a SF board member and fishery scientist comments on the latest numbers in the attached document.

[Monty]

Finchaser mentioned the mass destruction done by bunker snaggers and charter boats in Virginia and NC in the winter.
Does anyone know where the RFA stands on this?

[vpass]

I might not agree on everything the RFA supports. I do understand the points that Monty brought up about the party boat and agree a lot with him, but at this moment the RFA might be best game in town to Lobby against the Gov/Com. I have / will be reading a lot about the other Organizations and what are there missions.

I’m just curious is it better to have many groups that are interested in the same goals, or is it better to unite them as one. What I’m talking about is the SSFFF, JCAA, Striperforever, RFA, and Others? (I’m not sure if there are others at the moment.) Could our voices be stronger if all groups where united?

[finchaser]

IMO except for JCAA the other are all pretty much talking and the RFA does the Lobbing in Washington the march on Washington in February was started by RFA and SSFFF to show unity of the recreational sector. Buses have been set up in 4 locations to bring anglers to Washington for $32.00 round trip.

Main concern now is fisheries being shut down by Ms. Lubchenco the PEW appointed Obama puppet. These closures are putting extreme pressure on Striped Bass and fluke which if they become over fished will shut them down next.

Over fished is different from over quota.

Over quota means you surpassed the government assigned quota
Over fished means a species is harvested faster then nature can supply it.

All the activists groups always used the term over fished when they lobby in Washington important to remember. Pew is now paying charter boat captains to convey this to the public.

Inaccurate over fished information caused seabass to be closed even though it was 103% rebuilt 3 years ahead of schedule.
Weakfish are truly over fished
Winter flounder will probably have no 2010 recreational season

So at any time Ms. Lubchenco deems bass or fluke over fished it's all over this is why it's so important to protect them now.

Plus she is not in favor of all coastal states having there own rules( like NJ has 2 bass @28"), she wants coastal NOAA size and bag limits giving her total control of all recreational fisheries.

The editorial in Sport Fishing magazine "To Late to Stop the Train Wreck" is down right sickening if you are a recreational fisherman.

[DarkSkies]

Here it is:

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/

[Monty]

It seems like Lubchenco is very conservative. Is she shutting down commercial fishing also? Why is a set size and limit for all states not the best way (if it was set at a consevative #)? These questions are relative to the stance that the RFA takes. Does the RFA have a stance on the current striper regulations in NJ/NY which I feel are terrible and should be changed (1 fish per person is plenty and raise the size to 36")? If the RFA is "looking out for charters, surf/boat fisheman", they more than likely do not want to reduce the current regs.