Member
Thanks !!
I will be there, will be wearing a blue hooded Montauk Surfcasters Association sweat shirt. if you see me say hello.
For all the help you have given us , will surely return the favor if you need help in New Jersey ! Thanks for effort in making the long trip out to Shoreham.
Administrator
Shoreham Civic Association Town Meeting 3/18/09
There was a good vibe at the beginning of the meeting tonight. A lot of surf fishermen showed up, honest estimate between 60-70 people. It was a virtual who's who of the LI surf world, with MSA & LIBBA being heavily represented. Some famous surf guys, and some of us regular guys, all there to show the town we mean business and are sick and tired of the runaround and doubletalk.
Some of the people I recognized: Willie Young, Crazy Alberto Knie, Tom Farrell, RPsurf (Jon), Vito Orlando and his friends from the MSA, BrianBM, Frankiesurf, Eisey, Wiseguy, a lot of the guys from Noreast, and some guys from another site that I haven't seen in a long time. It was good to make a strong showing.
I asked Willie at the end how he thought it went, he said it was positive. Willie and all the rest of us were on our best behavior tonight.Everyone was courteous and respectful, even when we didn't feel like it.
To all the guys who showed up in support. After going to so many meetings, I was getting a little discouraged that it seems progress is so slow.
Rather than give my regular report from the detailed notes I took, I'll try to be brief and outline the highlights. Sometiimes my reports are too frikkin long, even for me.
Basically, both candidates, and the Shoreham Civic Association, said "We understand your concerns, we understand the frustration you are going through, and we are actively working through this to resolve the issues"
Great, but I have heard that so many times before in different versions, I'm starting to believe these statements lack credibility.
This was prompted by a conversation I had on another site, with gunny and frankiesurf, where we talked about not accepting the truth unless you can verify it for yourself. So today before the meeting I did just that, went to both Riverhead and Shoreham beach, took pics, and compared the situations.
My conclusion: The Town council in Brookhaven is dragging its feet, and could do better. They're hiding behind the old law they dug up that designates that beach a bathing only beach.
Eisey did some research and gave me a great handout on the Public Trust origins in LI. I'll post that in another thread.
As for the candidates, it was the same Q&A you would see at any town meeting, and I asked myself how would either of these candidates do things any different?
The answer came when Mr Lesko pointed out that Mr Mazzei was part of the current town council that closed down Shoreham fishing to fishermen. So how can it be that Mr Maizey will now "work to open access" if he and other town officials unilaterally closed that place without any input from fiishermen at all?
There was further talk about the closed Shoreham plant and working with the LI power grid to "open access for fishermen through their property so they don't have to use the Shoreham beach bathing beach for access"
That's a great idea, but that could take years. Maybe not, but isn't it convenient that all of this is promised to take place AFTER the election, when something could have been done about it by approaching fishermen as soon as it was closed, and working together for a solution?
It's my gut feeling that none of the people up there who don't fish care about fishermen and our rights. The only reason they are even starting a dialogue is they see the numbers that are beginning to oppose this, and they're starting to worry.
So they knoiw that now they have to deal with us one way or another, we're not going away.
I won't be voting inn that election because I don't live there. I didn't want to get into the pollitical game of endorsing any candidate. I liked some of the things each candidate said. As I get older, I tend to support more politically and fiscally conservative candidates like Mr Mazzei.
However, my personal opinion is that Mr Mazzei had his chance, along with the other members of that town council, and blew it. They only decided to deal with us because of the national press this is getting. So if I was voting, I would vote all the incumbents out, and vote for a new slate of people. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same patronizing answers.
I'll still go there and protest, but I wish I had somehing more positive to report. And if anyone doubts the power of the internet, I remember the Civic Association and the candidates saying several times that they read our "internet blogs" and are aware of the negative sentiment out there. Let's keep up the pressure on this, guys, we need more soldiers to win.
I had a good time meeting everyone.
I'll post some pics tomorrow.
Senior Member
Originally Posted by DarkSkies
Look at Dark, protestor of justice, truth, the American way on the internet and now a political activist. What will you be adding to your resume tomorrow?
I'm thinking of hiring you for any access problems that come down the pike in this great state of Taxachusetts. What are your rates? Just kidding.I've been reading up on this. I would paddle my yak over and crap on their beach fer you, but it's a little too far when the waves kick up. Eat the lunch of those richies there, they have no right to step on you. Get mad!!!!
Member
A big thumbs up
Senior Member
Great job on everything guys!
Senior Member
This might sound like a stupid question, but with all the attention this is getting, isn't there one fisherman who lives there that could run in the election against Bonner? Elect Lesko, dump Bonner, solve the problem, let guys fish there again. Sounds simple enough, no?
Member
Thank you all for showing your support! It was nice to see you pull through once again darkskies. It has to be a terrible distance to travel for you. Maybe one day we will be able to return the favor.
See below which is currently published in the North Shore Sun and is being published in the Long Island Fisherman as well.
"NORTHSHORESUN.COM | MARCH 20, 2009 | 5
PAID ADVERTISEMENT
TOWN SUPERVISOR CANDIDATES STANCE ON RECREATIONAL FISHING
16 March 2009
As many already know, the fishermen of Long Island have been denied access to fi shing on a public beach known as Shoreham
Beach in the Town of Brookhaven. With 153 miles of coastline in the Town of Brookhaven and only 14 legal locations to fi sh, this
should be an outrage to all.
There have been thousands of letters, e-mails and phone calls to our local politicians and offi cials regarding this matter. However,
none of them, as of yet, have stepped up on behalf of the fi shermen; Shoreham Beach is still off limits to both fi shermen and boaters.
On March 31, 2009, there will be a special election for the offi ce of town supervisor for the Town of Brookhaven. This has led the
New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing to send each candidate a questionnaire regarding their stance on recreational fi shing
within the Town of Brookhaven.
Listed below you will see the questions that were given to each candidate, along with their replies. (Each candidate was informed
in writing that their responses to this questionnaire will be made public in the Long Island Fisherman and another local newspaper).
#1. Do you believe that recreational fi shing aids the economy for the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Timothy Mazzei answered yes and did not provide any comment.
Mr. Mark Lesko answered yes and stated: “Recreational fi shing is important to Brookhaven’s economy because of the multiplier effect
it has. The fact is that there is a whole industry in our town related to the fi shing community and as elected offi cials we need to do all we can to keep that community vibrant. With all the regulations coming down from the National Marine Fisheries Service, it is more important than ever that local officials do all they can do to be supportive of this industry.”
#2. Are you in favor of increased fishing opportunities and additional fi shing access within the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “One of the best things about Brookhaven is that we border the Sound and the bay. I have lived
on the Great South Bay my whole life, boating and clamming since I was a little boy. We must work hard to continue our way of life
and take advantage of where we live.”
Mr. Lesko answered yes and stated “There is an important link between fishing and environmental conservation. There are no better
stewards of our environment than fi shermen, because they understand that only by protecting our natural resources can there be
sustainability.”
#3. Are you willing to increase enforcement of existing codes and statutes in the town?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “That is our responsibility as town officials.”
Mr. Lesko answered by stating: “I would need to sit down with the fi shing community, community residents and enforcement staff
when I become supervisor in order to gauge enforcement and the town code relating to fishing issues and what modifi cations may
need to be made.”
#4. Are you in favor of a nonresident fishing permit to help aid the economy of the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “As long as it doesn’t confl ict with the health and well being of our residents.”
Mr. Lesko answered by stating: “At this time I am not ready to commit to a nonresident permit. However, I would be interested in
listening to the community as well as residents to discuss the parameters of such a permit and the impact it would have. I agree that
Brookhaven offers some great fi shing opportunities for nonresidents, and bringing people to experience our town would have a
beneficial impact on our economy.”
#5. Would you be in favor of having a Recreational Fishing Advisory Board for the Town of Brookhaven?
Mr. Mazzei answered yes and stated: “The more input the better.”
Mr. Lesko answered yes and stated: “The way I make decisions is to listen to a broad variety of views and then make the best
decisions possible based on the facts. A Recreational Fishing Advisory Board would be helpful to make the best decisions on issues
like access, permitting and the town code.”
The politicians need to realize, as fishermen we are vast in numbers and we vote. It is time for all of us to stand up for our rights.
Violations of our rights cannot be tolerated any longer. Thank you in advance for publishing this letter.
Sincerely,
Tom Farrell
Secretary
New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing Inc.
95 Narwood Rd.
Massapequa, N.Y. 11758
Paid for by The New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing · William A. Young, President "
This battle is not over yet but there is definiely a light at the end of the tunnel.
Member
Senior Member
7dp, it's already happening, there is a movement to dump Bonner. Signs have been made up and are posted in the Brookhaven area. I got this from another site, made me proud to read it.
Senior Member
I don't live there but based on what I read here I would vote for Lesko. Great job everyone!
Administrator
Looks like Mr Mazzei really dropped the ball on this one. I tried to be fair and balanced, but kind of made up my mind that he had his chance when it was revealed that he was part of the group of officials that banned fishing there in the first place. I thought it was unacceptable to use that archaic law as a shield for what they did. Pass the buck, pass the buck.
There was some talk in this thread of hiring a lawyer, and whether money was available. At the meeting I sat in back of an attorney. His internet name is BrianBM from Suffolk county NY. He was taking comprehensive notes, almost as many as me.
I thought someone who reads this could get in touch with him on that other site and ask him if he might consider representing the fishermen. I didn't get a chance to get his number, but I assume he is registered to practice in NY since he lives there. Again, I don't know if he would be interested, but it's worth a shot to ask him. The momentum is finally rolling, but I'm still cynical until I see something concrete happening.
Member
Rich,Looks like Mr Mazzei really dropped the ball on this one. I tried to be fair and balanced, but kind of made up my mind that he had his chance when it was revealed that he was part of the group of officials that banned fishing there in the first place. I thought it was unacceptable to use that archaic law as a shield for what they did. Pass the buck, pass the buck.
There was some talk in this thread of hiring a lawyer, and whether money was available. At the meeting I sat in back of an attorney. His internet name is BrianBM from Suffolk county NY. He was taking comprehensive notes, almost as many as me.
I thought someone who reads this could get in touch with him on that other site and ask him if he might consider representing the fishermen. I didn't get a chance to get his number, but I assume he is registered to practice in NY since he lives there. Again, I don't know if he would be interested, but it's worth a shot to ask him. The momentum is finally rolling, but I'm still cynical until I see something concrete happening.
Mazzei is currently on the town board, him and others are as responsible for this ban as anyone. Jane Bonner spearheaded it, but the other town board members let her do it and/or helped her.
Its amazing to me with all the publicity , all the pressure and all the doors we have knocked on, not one person in a position of authority has done anything to overturn this wrongful ban.
Dont worry, one way or another we will get this access back. The law is on our side and the masses are on our side. We have too many dedicated , committed people not to get this access back. I for one am a stubborn son of a gun and am not going to rest until we get what we rightfully deserve and want.
John
Senior Member
Ding, we have a winner right there!Sounds to me like they are stonewalling. Great work, everyone!
Senior Member
Stonewalling isn't the word for it. They really don't care. Here's proof from a post on another site.We have to keep up the pressure on this guys, thanks for any support you can give.
"I called Bonner's office today to see what her position is. I was handed off to Mooney, the public information guy. According to him it is Town code that keeps us off that beach, not County code. He had no idea that we're being told by Town reps that it was a County issue. I was nice till he said "it's a bathing beach, period. Why don't you guys just fish somewhere else?".
Tim Mazzei stated the reason he moved public information out of the Supervisors office was because he was told at that time the public information dept did not work for him. I guess his public information guy does not work for us. The answer about National Grid working something out with the town is a pipe dream or a stall tactic. National grid has their property on lockdown aggressively stopping trespassing.
The fishing community has to realize that their vote in this special election could be the deciding vote due to expected low turnouts. A block of 500-1000 votes of unexpected votes could easily determine the outcome of this election. So please try to get as many people as you can out to vote on Mar 31 and let the elected officials know that your vote counts."
Senior Member
Real difficult for me to get to the meetings but I am glad to see that you guys are keeping after them. We have to take a stand, otherwise they will just keep taking our rights away.
Junior Member
No decisions will be made until after the election results are in.
The best we can do now is VOTE, and continue with the letters and calls.
Remember, this election is for town supervisor, Ms Bonners election is in November.
Bob Eisey
LIBBA 1002, MSA 295
Administrator
Here's some links to Public Trust Doctrine quotes Eisey gave me. Thanks, man.
http://pb.state.ny.us/legal/court_de..._22784_wjf.pdf
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/gelpi/...outhampton.pdf
(Man my head hurts from skimming through that!)
http://www.braypapers.com/PTD.html
In the case of W.J.F Realty Corporation and Reed Rubin v. the State of New York , the New York State Supreme Court, Suffolk County upheld the Long Island Pine Barrens Act ("Act") against a takings challenge by highlighting the public trust doctrine. The decision was handed down on April 22, 1998, Earth Day. Briefly state, the Act is a comprehensive planning law that established in a 100,000 acre area of Long Island a 50,000 acre protected preserve surrounded by a 50,000 acre managed growth area. Justice William L. Underwood's decision includes an analysis of the common law and he concludes that, "Contrary to popular misconception, the Common Law did speak on the subject of environmental regulation". He concludes his analysis by declaring that:
In enacting environmental mandates (as in protecting the right of property), we are merely discharging our obligation under the societal contract between 'Those who are dead, those who are living and those yet to be born'. (Edmund Burke)...This generations duty has been discharged merely be setting aside this land for their (future generations) use under the doctrine of the Public Trust.
Senior Member
Member
Stan from Rocky Point Fishing Stop spoke to Mazzei
All,
Stan from RPFS asked me to post the following. I am not telling anyone how to vote, just providing the following piece of information for you to digest.
Here is the email Stan sent me :
<< John,
I just got a call from Tim Mazzei in response to the email I sent him Saturday. I was very impressed with his demeanor, and his support for fisherman and the opening of beaches, for fishing, on the North Shore of Brookhaven. He told me I can hold him to his word on these issues if he gets elected. I never had a politician say that to me in the past 37 years while being involved with the town. Personally he seemed like a very regular, straight up person. I have yet to meet him, and unfortunately do not know that much about him, but he did seem very sincere. He, like I, own businesses and discussed other issues that we both stand on common ground with.
John, I know it is late, but I would appreciate if you could get this out to the various bloggs. Tomorrow we vote and our faction should hear this to help make their decision.
Stan >>
Senior Member
John, come on give me a break! Mazzei is on the very town council that instituted the ban in the first place. He had to vote on it or it wouldn't have happened. He bears collective responsibility with the rest of that town council. Him going to Stan from Rocky Point is the biggest kiss azz move I have ever seen! He knows he stands to lose the election, so now he's making some last minute maneuvering. That's so transparent, why can't people see through crap like that? If he really wanted to make things happen, he would have done something before the election. Maybe it's already in the works, and he went to Stan so he can grandstand if he wins and say it was "his" efforts. I think he's a lying sack of crap, all that comes out of his mouth is crap, crap, crap. I don't trust anything he says. I would rather trust a pedophile babysitter than trust his promises.
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