Where are the Striped Bass?

[cowherder]

I have only been catching bigger (well, to me they are big anyway but not accordig to dark!) bass for 3 years now and that is because I joined this site and you guys helped me a lot. I try to read almost every post that gets posted here.,Through that I get a general sense that you all, especially finchaser, have a lot of experience from which you speak. I would not doubt any of your words because as surfstix says, you have lived through it. Thats why I think it is important to catch and release some fish. I think vpass said some important things about the smaller bass too. When I first started fishing, I would catch raritan bay a lot and catch mostly small fish. Now when I go to check on the piers there it seems like they are not catching much of anything, even bluefish.

[bababooey]

Even Fish-story Ristori is out of stories, the surf fishing must be bad. From his blog:

"as far as I'm concerned it can't do anything but good for surfcasting which has been the worst I've seen in October since starting surfcasting in N.J. many years ago. "

[finchaser]

Even Fish-story Ristori is out of stories, the surf fishing must be bad. From his blog:

"as far as I'm concerned it can't do anything but good for surfcasting which has been the worst I've seen in October since starting surf casting in N.J. many years ago. "

He was given the name Al Fishstory many many years ago. I know him since he worked for Abu Garcia
back in the 60's and have fished the beaches with him for 25 years. We were discussing this just the other day when he decided to fish blackfish in the canal since bass fishing was a waste of time.

[DarkSkies]

Even Fish-story Ristori is out of stories, the surf fishing must be bad. From his blog:

"as far as I'm concerned it can't do anything but good for surfcasting which has been the worst I've seen in October since starting surfcasting in N.J. many years ago. "

I would like to remind anglers that last year, BEFORE the action heated up at Island Beach State Park and some other areas, many surf anglers were lamenting how lousy the 2011 Surf Season was......this isn't conjecture, these are cold hard facts.

The sand eels showing up at Island Beach provided 6 weeks of fantastic fishing, and saved the season.
Without them, some tackle shops would have been close to bankruptcy because the fish were just not there.

[DarkSkies]

This continues the thoughts from the above post....

Every year we have numerous 50's and 60's caught off the coast of NJ.
So far, as of May 19, there have only been a few 50lb fish reported.

There have been some 40lb class fish, but not too many of those, considering how many guys are out there fishing......


Let's assume that all the other pages of this thread are just crap, totally made up, illogical thoughts....as there are some out there who would have you believe that striped bass fishing in NJ is as good as it's ever been.......

If that were so, we would be awash in reports of 50 and 60lb fish being caught.
As the Spring season is at least halfway along with large numbers of fish now at Montauk and Block, surely more numbers of these bigger fish would have been reported.....




But there aren't....why not?


I submit to the folks out there, that is because we have hammered those year classes.
Everyone out there is in a quest to land and keep a bigger trophy fish.....

As a result the 50's and 60's are dwindling.
the 40lb class is also dwindling as well.

The "NEW" average big fish is generally between 20-25lbs.
THIS is a huge problem, as the fish from 32-38" are scientifically proven to be the most prolific breeders (do a search on fecundity studies on this site to see the proof)

[DarkSkies]

Where are the schoolies?
Additionally, the inshore surf areas where friends and I fish have generally held a lot of schoolie bass, in the 20-27" range....


Other than the ones we were catching in the winter, (See the thread where I identify these as Hudson River Fish) and a spurt of activity in the bays around March, there have been relatively few small schoolie bass in our northern NJ waters this spring.....countless surf anglers have mentioned this to me, and noted their concerns.


These small bass are the spawners of tomorrow...if their numbers aren't strong, the striped bass population is nowhere near as healthy as it is claimed to be.

Food for thought, folks.....

[albiealert]

Excellent points, dark. We have schoolies in the Sound but I think that is because a lot of them winter in the Connecticut Rivers. My catces of the smaller bass have gone down in the last 3 years, so maybe that is something you can use in your data here too.

[Monty]

But there aren't....why not?


I submit to the folks out there, that is because we have hammered those year classes.
Everyone out there is in a quest to land and keep a bigger trophy fish.....

Not everyone Dark, but way, way, way to many are out there killing to many big fish or for that matter any fish that is legal..
Its past being out of control, regulations need to change cause the people killing them will not change.
How there is still a bonus tag is ducking stupid.
How regulations have not been adjusted to the increased pressure on Striped bass is a display of ignorance, corruption and stupidity.

[finchaser]

Not everyone Dark, but way, way, way to many are out there killing to many big fish or for that matter any fish that is legal..
Its past being out of control, regulations need to change cause the people killing them will not change.
How there is still a bonus tag is ducking stupid.
How regulations have not been adjusted to the increased pressure on Striped bass is a display of ignorance, corruption and stupidity.

Tom Forte and his stupid statement of there are more bass than ever delayed it a year

[BassBuddah]

Tom Forte and his stupid statement of there are more bass than ever delayed it a year

^^ That is not possible. That statement is inane.


my recent Montauk report:

I was looking for a thread to add my summer observations to. This one seemed appropriate. I have been fishing the big M consistently for about 20 years, Summer and Fall. Last Fall was the worst one since I started keeping logs. I was hoping this summer would turn out better for we who fish the Point at Montauk and the night tides at different places there.
I have gone out there for the last 2 weekends. My results are not encouraging. Each weekend my biggest fish were only in the mid teens. First weekend I managed 2 teeners to 15 lbs. Last weekend I managed 1 thirteen pounds. There were a few small schoolies and bluefish. All on the night tides, into sunrise. And a few bluefish as well.
According to my logs the 2nd week of June has consistently been a point where the action starts to heat up.
We have water temps around 67 degrees there right now, and it has been as low as 61. This is good temperature for bass and they should have been there in greater numbers. This concerns me. I am hoping things will turn around for the fall but am not optimistic. The boats are doing well out in deeper water. We have had a lot of small whitebait run through the Point and the fish should be there but they are not.

[Monty]

This is good temperature for bass and they should have been there in greater numbers. This concerns me. I am hoping things will turn around for the fall but am not optimistic. The boats are doing well out in deeper water. We have had a lot of small whitebait run through the Point and the fish should be there but they are not.

There are a few posts I see here in Jersey already looking forwrd to the fall run. Lots of peanuts in the bay. The fall will more than likey bring sand eels up the wazoo again.

I keep thinking what good all that bait will be without bass?
Seems like the only way to get the regulations changed is to kill as many bass as possible. A race to zero bass. Snag and drop and eliminate the breeders. MORONS!!

[crosseyedbass]

I keep thinking what good all that bait will be without bass?
!

Hey no problem, once the bass are gone we will have the biggest sea robins dogfish and skates around. And did you know the stripers are responsible for eating all the crabs? Once the bass are gone the crabs will get to around 10" in size, right?

[skinner]

There are too many internet heroes out there. Didn't start fishing until 5 years ago and now they are all pros with facebook pages and seminars. The hoisting of big fish for photo ops and putting them in dumpsters has got to stop. But maybe you can't fix stupid and as monty said maybe we need to start all over so most will quit fishing for them and move on to other things (golf anyone?)

[DarkSkies]

Seems like the only way to get the regulations changed is to kill as many bass as possible. A race to zero bass. Snag and drop and eliminate the breeders. MORONS!!

Monty, for years I was of the mindset that some of us could make a difference. I started a thread elsewhere and got some real positive comments and memories of what bass fishing used to be like, and drawing parallels to what happened before the moratorium, to what is happening now.














As you guys said, the focus on big bass is part of the problem. And I don't take issue with that, but I really must add that it is more the participation in striped bass fishing, that is one of the biggest factors in the decline I and others are seeing.



That could be solved by a "limited slot fishery" where we did not permit the most prolific breeders, say from 28"- 38"....to be harvested.

You could have a bonus trophy fish for all fish above 38"....one per angler, no bonus tags.
And maybe one small fish 24-27" allowed per day for anglers as well.
Kind of like they have in NY but with slightly different parameters.
The key is to find a way to get anglers who fish often, to take less fish home.
I fish more than the average angler and as a result catch more fish. This has opened my eyes to mortality and conservation. I know that if I want to talk about the future, it's up to me to set an example and do my part.

However, I know my ideas might not end up being the most popular or reasonable to all involved. I can tell you if this were done, we probably would never have issues with the biomass again. The biggest factor in breeding is fecundity (do a search here and you will find some interesting threads).
You will also find that bass from 28-38" are the most prolific breeders.



I have no vested interest in whether the fishery remains open or not.
I will still fish for bass, whether they permit us to or not. I consider it part of my therapy to do it, and part of my rights as an American citizen.

The only way I would stop fishing for them is if I thought they were headed for extinction, like the weakfish possibly are. I have stopped targeting weakfish because of that, and don't believe in the cyclicality theory that some believe in. I know for a fact that some gillnetters are decimating the spike weakfish population. As fast as the spikes can grow, they are netted and sold for 20c/lb as catfood. Minimal regulations for this, and IMO until it stops completely, the population will not rebound...

[DarkSkies]

But I digress, back to the Striped Bass....
I could probably be very happy if this Fishery was closed. As it is now, most of the guys who were not serious have stopped fishing for them completely and will not start again till they hear the "run" is "epic" in the fall....


That's fine with me as I am enjoying more room at the beach at night than ever before.
But the participation has dropped so much it's kind of eerie....I can go for nights on end without ever running into another soul....

That was a thing I used to relish....


but part of me thinks about future anglers...
And my conscience bothers me if I don't stand up for them, whether they feel they need an advocate or not...


1.The Father fishing with his Son or Daughter at the beach or bayside, teaching them the ropes...
2.The Kid who doesn't have a father, or whose father is too busy, getting into fishing as a way of dealing with life (that kid was me, at times)
3. The family who doesn't have a lot of money to take fancy vacations, and views fishing at the beach, or bay, as a way to relax and have fun for the day....
4. The newest generation of our children who are so enmeshed in electronic gadgets that people don't communicate with each other verbally anymore...it's all done by phone or texting....

[DarkSkies]

"Giving up your seat to the Woman on the Train"

I'll try once more, to paint a picture of how things are, for the folks out there...
Analogies are often helpful tools to try to get folks to empathize and see things on their own terms...
I'll be using this analogy in discussions on various websites I belong to. Feel free to use this analogy if it suits your needs.



I. I think most of us have ridden on a bus or train at least once in our lives.
I used to ride a train every day to commute to work.

The way I was raised, was that when you are on a bus or train, and a woman comes on, you automatically get up and offer your seat to her. Our generation just did this without thinking. Some might say in today's times it is sexist. I think it would be sexist to insist she take the seat.....

However, I consider it an act of human kindness to offer it. Woman are our equals, but we can also show them respect that they deserve. Chivalry is a good thing. That's how I was raised and am glad for it.






Thinking about striped bass,,,,I want you folks reading this to think of that analogy as you read the following words.....





II.
Suppose there are a lot of us who fish for striped bass.
We are all riding on the same bus, or train.

Something happens to the conditions that causes us to re-think of where we are sitting on that bus or train.
(In the bus example, a woman gets on and we feel compelled to offer her a seat, moreso if she is pregnant or elderly)

In the striped bass example, we are all fishing for bass, conditions, change, and we make a choice to do things differently, such as restrict our catches, keep less, put more breeders back etc....




We make these changes, do these actions, voluntarily.
Some of us offer our seat more than others.
Because we fish more often or have more seasoning, we see a bigger picture that others cannot see.

This is not tree hugging, or environmental freaks...folks have seen my battles with these people.
The difference there is that the envoronmental freaks want to force their views on everyone else.

In this bus/train example, I want to make it clear that some of us are making a conscious choice.
To do things differently.







One of the problems with today's generation, is that they were raised differently.
Some of them are selfish, self-centered.
Some of them don't understand the concept of self-sacrifice.
Some of them won't make changes until they are directly affected or it's too late.


So I hope this analogy was not too confusing, and made sense to some folks out there.
We either monitor our catches, and think about changing some of our harvesting behavior.

(Realisticaly, I don't think the above changes will happen, but remain somewhat hopeful)









Or.....
We can let the Gov't do it for us,,,,when (not if, but when) there is another crash

[DarkSkies]

I want to thank all you folks who have laid down your thoughts and opinions in this thread.

I'm just a moderator who tries to provide some guidance and order....but your honest opinions, even when different, are the true voices here....and I sincerely thank you for every one of them......


Some more resources....

1.Striped bass species and life cycle South Atlantic
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/spe.../82_11-118.pdf

2. Egg survival relative to low salinity, medium turbidity, lower suspended solids, adequate dissolved oxygen content, and moderate water temperature (65 or less is optimal)
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/waterr...cdfg_exh42.pdf

3. Egg and fry survival optimum conditions
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/irc/docs/00000260_13.pdf

4. Striped Bass range and behavior
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dmf/recre...tripedbass.htm

5. NOAA charts on striped bass and egg survival
http://spo.nmfs.noaa.gov/mfr413/mfr4131.pdf

[Monty]

(Realistically, I don't think the above changes will happen, but remain somewhat hopeful)


Or.....
We can let the Gov't do it for us,,,,when (not if, but when) there is another crash

Dark, I think it is very good this is discussed, that the conservative opinions are expressed on message boards and in person. In the end it will more than likely take the "crash" to have regulations changed to a level that will cause the striper population to increase in numbers. But the voices of reason on the conservative end may have an impact on some and may speed up the changes needed.
Like you I'll always fish for them. Its therapy. Its fun.

[williehookem]

Written by Capt Gene Kelly

8/13/12

When the boat next to you isn’t sailing that’s a recession and when you aren’t sailing that’s a depression and right now things are pretty depressing for the Montauk charter fleet. Friday and Saturday are always the busiest days (Sunday traffic scares a lot of people) and when I made my early morning check this past weekend there were a couple of boats still tied up that shouldn’t have been. And this is August, normally the busiest month when most of the established boats would normally be sailing every day unless they were blown out. And now, most are lucky to get in four to five trips a week.

I run a charter service and most of my calls come after potential clients have gotten tired of calling boats only to find out they are booked. Back in the early spring I was getting inquiries which is very unusual so I thought that this would be a better year than last year, which was a pretty poor one. But I guess as all the poor economic news developed, people started to change their minds about how they were going to spend their $$$.

Now most of my calls are from individuals looking to join in with others on a shared charter, which we used to call a “splits” until they became extinct. Years ago when I started out splits were very common and all the old timers remember Tuma’s Tackle Shop where Mrs. Tuma would coordinate things. You’d hang around in front of the shop until she would call you and give you six anglers to take out. Nowadays there is no central booking agency where that can be done. All the charterboats are getting calls from singles or doubles that want to join up with some others on a trip, and undoubtedly every day at least one trip could be put together.

As I always say when I hear guys moaning and groaning about the business; “It could be worse, I could own a boat”.
As for the fishing, you could check back with last weeks report. It’s pretty much the same. There are a good amount of makos around and if you go sharking you will probably catch - and release - one. Tuna fishing is nothing to get excited about


Inshore striper fishing is still tough and Southwest Ledge isn’t looking as good as it was.

Bottom fishing is good for porgies and sea bass and OK for fluke.

I’m trying to get a forum up and running. It only deals with Montauk. If you fish here, check it out at http://www.montauksportfishing.com/mtkforum.html and contribute.

[lostatsea]

William "Doc" Muller on bass in the Chesapeake and Hudson. Doc has written a few books and knows his ****.