Portable Live well advice

[Malek_Nyghtson]

I am in the process of designing a portable live well to assist in keeping my bat and catches alive. I have been researching this for about 4 months now and everything I find is for use on a boat. I fish from shore here in PA along the Susquehanna river for basically anything that swims I tend to target bass, walleye, and Flathead Catfish which are my favorite to fish for but of course by the time I catch the 8-10 inch sunnies, blues, and rock bass or the 12 inch bullhead catfish for bait and get to where I fish for the flatheads they are all dead. I have caught some hungry channel cats with the dead fish but I tend to not target them cause I do not like to eat them as much still fun to catch but I fish for food, and for the past 6 years there has been a kill order out on flathead catfish where if you catch them from the susky you have to kill them or get nailed with a huge fine. anywho i digress, with the system I am trying to design to keep the fish alive I basically need to know what works I have found from experience that the d cell battery operated aerators from Bass pro are junk and do not work could not even keep 12 minnows alive for an hour til we got to where we were going.

I found a couple different coolers to use for the project but the igloo sportsman 100 found at walmart http://www.walmart.com/ip/Igloo-Spor...ooler/14550422 looks like it will be the best choise with the hatch on top to put the bait in without opening the entire lid. most systems I see require a 12v battery of some kind I do not know if it will work or not but I was thinking a deep cell rechargable battery setup with 1 or 2 solar panels mounted on top of the cooler to help keep the battery charged, any idea if this will actually work? i found this battery at walmart but do not know if it will be strong enough for the application I am needing it for http://www.walmart.com/ip/Spypoint-1...r-Kit/17687574 any suggestions or a recirculation style pump that will actually help keep the fish alive would be great I have been researching them but you know how the manufacture sites are with their wild claims and half truths you never know what actually works I was seriously considering the Oxygenator over at keepfishalive.com their claims seemed to be seriously backed by science but I read a few other sites which actually tested the units and the final of it stated that they do not work as well as claimed so now back to trying to find a system that will work for what I need.

my wife tells me all the time I have a tendency to ramble and wander in my thoughts and I do apologize for that and I thank any who are willing to help with there thoughts on this project

[jigfreak]

Malek I do a lot of fresh water fishing, That cooler would work but it must be a pita to carry around. You said you are using sunnies and other small fish. I would suggest you add suckers to that list. They can be caught by enlarging the hole in a minnow trap and leaving near the mouth of small freshwater creeks that feed into the bigger ones. Another trick is to cut their dorsal fin on the bottom so they can't just sit in a hole and have to move around. It also slows them down for the catfish and I have found the catfish like softer baits like suckers more than they do sunnies though sunnies will work too.

I like that oxygenator never used it before but looks like some nice technology. If you use it be sure to give us a report on it. Like the 12 volt battery too. I agee the d batteries are crap for keeping bait alive all day when fishing in a boat I bring an extra deep cell 12v and use that to keep the bait alive.
Good luck let us know how you do. Whats your biggest flathead so far?

[jigfreak]

my wife tells me all the time I have a tendency to ramble and wander in my thoughts and I do apologize for that and I thank any who are willing to help with there thoughts on this project

Thats not bad you won't feel bad when you see darks posts the guy can ramble on for pages at a time.

[Malek_Nyghtson]

Malek I do a lot of fresh water fishing, That cooler would work but it must be a pita to carry around. You said you are using sunnies and other small fish. I would suggest you add suckers to that list. They can be caught by enlarging the hole in a minnow trap and leaving near the mouth of small freshwater creeks that feed into the bigger ones. Another trick is to cut their dorsal fin on the bottom so they can't just sit in a hole and have to move around. It also slows them down for the catfish and I have found the catfish like softer baits like suckers more than they do sunnies though sunnies will work too.

I like that oxygenator never used it before but looks like some nice technology. If you use it be sure to give us a report on it. Like the 12 volt battery too. I agee the d batteries are crap for keeping bait alive all day when fishing in a boat I bring an extra deep cell 12v and use that to keep the bait alive.
Good luck let us know how you do. Whats your biggest flathead so far?

not really worried bout carrying it planning on making a cart for it with big sand wheels the places I access the susky at are not very big so it will be set it where I can and go from there. so far the best bait I have found for flathead catfish are actually bullhead catfish I hook them behind the dorsal fin with an 6/0 - 12/0 team catfish circle hook tos him out and flip the lever on my baitrunner the flatties cannot resist them. i have been told suckers are related to carp and here in pa it is illegal to use anything in the "goldfish" family for bait (ie goldfish, carp, koi, etc) the oxygenator I will not be wasting my money on I research the crap out of everything before I make a purchase and according to this guy http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandf...ffective-is-it who ran it through its paces testing the water every 10 minutes I will not be trying it out. " Portable Oxygenator Test Results Recirculation produced substantially more oxygen than the oxygenator and raised oxygen level to near saturation in 10 minutes. Using the Oxygenator together with recirculation increased oxygen by only 3.8% over recirculation only." which is one of the reasons I am looking for a system that will recirculate the water without having to worry about all the fish debris clogging it up . my biggest flathead ever was caught down in Oklahoma during a thunderstorm I was fishing for trout using a ultra light and 4lb test right as the storm popped up I started reeling it in to get out of there and it fell like a full speed mac truck hit my line dang near ripped the pole out of my hand 3 and a half hours later on slowly reeling and flipping the bail when he wanted to run i finally landed a 64 lb 5 oz flathead and yes I was soaked straight through for that fish. here in pa the biggest I have caught thus far was just a lil 24 pounder

[Malek_Nyghtson]

Thats not bad you won't feel bad when you see darks posts the guy can ramble on for pages at a time.

so can I actually I have been trying to limit myself and stay on track of what I was typing I have been told my thoughts are hard to follow at times lol

[seamonkey]

Hey Malek welcome to the site that's a crazy story a 64lb catfish is a monster must have been a lot of fun to bring that one in!
I have fished for catfish before in the delaware near phila and trenton. We like to use chicken livers but I guess the live bait will bring in the big ones.
The best success I had was fishing at night or at the end of day. Do you fish at night or do you think it matters? Thanks for your post and sharing the info.

[Malek_Nyghtson]

Hey Malek welcome to the site that's a crazy story a 64lb catfish is a monster must have been a lot of fun to bring that one in!
I have fished for catfish before in the delaware near phila and trenton. We like to use chicken livers but I guess the live bait will bring in the big ones.
The best success I had was fishing at night or at the end of day. Do you fish at night or do you think it matters? Thanks for your post and sharing the info.

Yeah it was alot of fun bringing that monster in at the time it was bordering on frustrating due to holding a rod with metal parts in the air during a severe thunderstorm with tons of lightning the rain was not coming down in buckets I believe they were using giant garbage cans . caught that one during the day actually when I target flatties I tend to fish all night from about 6 to 4 am this has been the best times for me I have caught them first thing in the morning before the sun comes up as well a guy over at xtreme catfishing said " Small flathead (10 lbs. or less) are prey and feed in areas and during times that will avoid large predators. Large flathead are almost completely dependent on the weather (cold/storm fronts) to tell them when to feed. Sometimes an unnatural rise or drop in water level will trigger a feed. Occasionally, an annoying bait placed to close to a resting giant gets eaten. My biggest flathead always come during a storm. This is just my experience ....... during Spring and Fall. Also, I've read several flathead tracking studies and they all either ignore or under-appreciate the significance of weather in a catfishes behavior." which is my experience as well if there is a front moving in or leaving you will have a better chance to catch them a guy I used to work with told me they sit and watch the weather channel for a certain area in maryland and when they see a front moving in or going out at the same time the tide is either coming in or going out and a full moon helps they grab their gear and go with very little notice last time he came back with over 200 lbs of blue and flathead fillets so what they do definitely works. I know the weather affects them but I do not know the science of it. i throw out what I know they like to eat and wait for them to find it.

now I have heard of some weird stuff that works like for channel cats best formula I have ever found is 1-2 lbs chicken livers half cup minced garlic and 2-4 cups of strawberry Kool-Aid throw this all in a lock-n-lock (you do not want the lid to accidentally come off) set it out in the sun for 3-5 days then when you put it on the treble take a strip of nylon and wrap it around it to hold it on. must have a strong stomach to use this stuff after about a week it resembles some kind of primordial ooze, but it is very effective. during the spring and fall I catch the most flatheads as they do not eat quite as much during the summer when they spawn not sure of the truth of this just a personal observation of recent years. the best bait for flatheads is always alive and kicking threading them on the line works the best as it keeps the bait alive longer than hooking them I use a 12" dollmakers needle for threading larger bullheads on the line then I snell the circle hook to ensure it will not come off flatheads tend to attack from behind so having the hook back by the tail makes sure you grab them. if I don't thread them I hook them behind the dorsal fin. sunnies and blues work well but they give up fighting to get free to soon white perch and bullheads fight tooth and nail to get free for hours on end and make alot of noise and splash around which of course attracts the target fish.

i spend many hours researching what may work better than what I have been using to target the fish I love to catch

[robmedina]

As far as the rambling- well, you are in good company, lets just say that.

I have nothing really to add to help your situation but reading your accounts reminds me of something I saw the other day. I was watching a show called Monster Fish. There are 2 shows with that title. One is with Trev Goudy or something like that and the other is a guy who is a marine biologist- The later one is the one I am referring to. Well anyway, he was down in Louisiana and he was on a local fisherman's boat. They were netting fish. In their catches they got carp and blue cats and bull head cats.
The fisherman pointed out that the flat head catfish is different from the other catfish in that they are predators that lie in wait. As opposed to the other catfish that will search for food by scent. He showed that the bellies were very white and the upper side was brown- sort of like a flounder.
Anyway- not sure if that is entirely true, but thought it was interesting.

[Malek_Nyghtson]

The fisherman pointed out that the flat head catfish is different from the other catfish in that they are predators that lie in wait. As opposed to the other catfish that will search for food by scent. He showed that the bellies were very white and the upper side was brown- sort of like a flounder.
Anyway- not sure if that is entirely true, but thought it was interesting.

yes Flathead Catfish are top level predators and they eat any other live fish that happen by that will fit in their mouth which is why it is illegal to introduce flatheads to a body of water that they are not native to they completely take over. one thing most people do not know about the flatheads that differ from every other catfish is that besides being the better eating fish in comparison they have a small triangle of belly meat which we refer to as the bacon and is the best meat I have ever tasted on a catfish it is located just below their head and it is worth the hassle just for that one lil strap of meat. yes they lie in wait most of the time they do go out and actively hunt when they get hungry but for the most part they just wait for food to swim by. as far as characteristics of a flathead they are olive,dark brown or a sandy yellow color with a wide flat head looks like a shovel and their tail it more square compared to the channel cat to see a good comparrison of the two check out this http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fish/catfish/biology.html


since this thread has apparently gone off track I will ask again if anyone knows of a good recirculation pump for a livewell or a way to filter it before it gets to the pump so they do not clog up I have seen some that have big filters around them but they are way over what I can afford ranging from 200-400 bucks and yes I know you get what you pay for and the words "good" and "cheap" do not belong in the same sentence so lets forget cheap I am looking for affordable lol

[bababooey]

Malek you did some good research here. My perspective comes from having a boat livewell. That is much different than your situation because I am able to recirculate fresh water which makes it a lot easier to keep bait alive.
For the conditions you are fishing you seem to be very thorough in your investigations so I would suggest you research urea content of various baitfish and try to experiment to see which species produce more. Also which species are hardier.
For instance you use bullheads maybe they don't excrete a lot of waste. Small bait like killies seem to excrete a lot of urea so that is why you want a continuous flow of fresh water or keep them out of the water on ice. Since your system uses the same water I would think the urea content would be important. You could also think about changing out that water 5 gallons at a time. Only you would know which bait fish are more hardy and which ones aren't. The urea content should be a deciding factor in how many fish you can keep in the cooler at one time.

[bababooey]

Also as you said the aerator would be key to making your system the best it can be,

[bababooey]

. Using the Oxygenator together with recirculation increased oxygen by only 3.8% over recirculation only." which is one of the reasons I am looking for a system that will recirculate the water without having to worry about all the fish debris clogging it up .

If that is the case why don't you use a boat recirculator pump and use one that is 500gph or more?


Here is a decent oxygenator I found but it is pricy.

http://www.amazon.com/Keepalive-KA11...d_sim_sbs_sg_2

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Keepalive KA1100 Original Infusor Aerator

by Keepalive
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In stock.
Usually ships within 3 to 4 days.
Ships from and sold by GREEN CANYON OUTFITTERS.

Portable Baitwell & Livewell Pumps

3 new from $103.18

[bababooey]

I did a quick seach and it seems you are right a lot of stuff out there is junk.
I liked this one from cabelas because it has a min of 3/4" hose and goes up to 1 1/2". The worst enemies to these pumps are fish scales and accumulated slime and debris so the bigger the hose the better.
I like cabelas because of their guarantee.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabel...:referralID=NA

If you try it and don't like it you can ship it back no questions asked. Can't beat that.
As for the battery if you are a serious fisherman I would look for nothing less than a 12v system. There are quite a few batterys nowadays that are lighter in weight. Good luck hope this helps.

[Malek_Nyghtson]

Malek you did some good research here. My perspective comes from having a boat livewell. That is much different than your situation because I am able to recirculate fresh water which makes it a lot easier to keep bait alive.
For the conditions you are fishing you seem to be very thorough in your investigations so I would suggest you research urea content of various baitfish and try to experiment to see which species produce more. Also which species are hardier.
For instance you use bullheads maybe they don't excrete a lot of waste. Small bait like killies seem to excrete a lot of urea so that is why you want a continuous flow of fresh water or keep them out of the water on ice. Since your system uses the same water I would think the urea content would be important. You could also think about changing out that water 5 gallons at a time. Only you would know which bait fish are more hardy and which ones aren't. The urea content should be a deciding factor in how many fish you can keep in the cooler at one time.

i have considered this and have seen several designs from other people where they put 1 or 2 in line cartridge filtration units in place to assist in removing the debris and keep the water clean or even adding a couple extra hoses where I could drape them into the water where i was fishing one for intact and one for return then cap them when in transport (which is when they usually die on me) what are your thoughts on using small solar panels for helping in keeping the battery charged will it work or a waste of money?

[Malek_Nyghtson]

If that is the case why don't you use a boat recirculator pump and use one that is 500gph or more?


Here is a decent oxygenator I found but it is pricy.

http://www.amazon.com/Keepalive-KA11...d_sim_sbs_sg_2

Sorry, this item is not available in Image not available for Color: Image not available To view this video download Flash Player

Keepalive KA1100 Original Infusor Aerator

by Keepalive
Be the first to review this item

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o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o

In stock.
Usually ships within 3 to 4 days.
Ships from and sold by GREEN CANYON OUTFITTERS.

Portable Baitwell & Livewell Pumps

3 new from $103.18

I actually looked at this one and for 100 bucks I would not have an issue with that as I know the 10-20 dollar d cell operated ones are all junk my concerns with this is with only a 25 gal area would 500gph be too much water movement for the fish? or too much pressure for them? even with all the research I have done I still do not know much about these kinds of units.

[Malek_Nyghtson]

I did a quick seach and it seems you are right a lot of stuff out there is junk.
I liked this one from cabelas because it has a min of 3/4" hose and goes up to 1 1/2". The worst enemies to these pumps are fish scales and accumulated slime and debris so the bigger the hose the better.
I like cabelas because of their guarantee.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabel...:referralID=NA

If you try it and don't like it you can ship it back no questions asked. Can't beat that.
As for the battery if you are a serious fisherman I would look for nothing less than a 12v system. There are quite a few batteries nowadays that are lighter in weight. Good luck hope this helps.

I shop at cabelas when I can closest one is an hour away where as BPS is only 15 mins away I do like this model and thank you for pointing it out to me as for being a serious fisherman well lets just say my wife got into fishing just so she would have a chance to spend time with me cause when I am not at work or sleeping I am out fishing if I am not out fishing I am on my puter looking up places to go fishing or researching anything fishing related.

[robmedina]

I am sure you probably have already seen this but just incase: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fishing...September-2012

[J Barbosa]

Just remember that each gallon of water weighs 8.36 pounds. A small ten gallon livewell will weigh 83.6 pounds not including the cooler itself or pump/batteries.

Are you carrying over rough terrain? If so invest the money in the big pair of wheeleez.

[Malek_Nyghtson]

Just remember that each gallon of water weighs 8.36 pounds. A small ten gallon livewell will weigh 83.6 pounds not including the cooler itself or pump/batteries.

Are you carrying over rough terrain? If so invest the money in the big pair of wheeleez.

yeah I am already planning on building a cart for it or figuring a way yo attach wheels to it cause full with just water (not counting fish,battery, or pump) is 209 lbs not about to even try to carry that. i am a big guy but that would kill my back

[hookset]

malek that is a huge bait tank. If you think it fits your needs go for it. But as john said water weighs a lot. I guess it depends on how you fish and assuming for catfish you will be going to one place and sitting down for the duration.
Home depot made some great coolers a while badk they were about 10 gallons.
Also we used to use some that were about 20 gallons a while back made out of white poly. This was when you could use herring from the delaware but you cant do that anymore.
What I wouild do is find some way to switch out the water if you will have the tank close to it. Even if you change 3-5 gallons at a time that would make a big difference. Someone mentioned the ammonia content in the water from the fish waste. Anything you could do to dilute that, short of plumbing it directly into the river where you fish, would give you a leg up on fish mortality.
How many baits do you usually keep in a tank at one time? When you have the answer to that question you can build your system around it. good luck and let us know how you make out.
btw rob nice link for that 5 gallon bucket. Now they make bigger buckets so you could modify to use for a 7.5 or 10 gallon bucket if you found one. I wouid use a 12v battery to power that system.