Beginners - Let's talk about the T&W essentials

[DarkSkies]

How to set up a tutorial thread in this beginners forum:

There are a ton of tutorials out there to help the new guys getting started. Some of the best ones I found have been from Ocean Kayaks. I could use some help putting these up and laying out some new threads here.

What I'm asking you folks for help is in kind of illustrating these threads for the beginners, and labeling it in the title with some reference to beginners, or you could copy exactly the format in the title line above.

All you have to do is:

go to you-tube,

C&P the link,

and put it in the brackets so it shows up here.

Here's a tutorial:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=7

Simply putting up the you-tube link as shown above and the thread title for "Beginners" would be very helpful.

If you can post up any more than that, that would be awesome as well.

Thanks for any help you can give people, as I'm busier now and could really use the assistance.

Feel free to post up links as well. Links are decided on a case-by-case basis here.

For the most part, I'm pretty liberal about posting up links here, unless the person putting them up has a financial interest, is trying to spam the site, or is not a contributing member to these forums. Thanks.

[DarkSkies]

This came from the t-man's site, they have all kinds of T&W stuff there.

http://www.tmancustomtackle.com/

Tube Fishing FAQ's

1. Can I fish my T-Man Striper Tube without any weight?

Yes, you can rig your T-Man Striper Tube without any weight to troll in shallow waters. Tie a quality swivel on the end of your main line and attach a

3ft piece of fluorocarbon leader from the swivel to the tube. Or better yet, tie a T-Man Quick Change Weighted Keel "in-line" with your tube and simply remove the weight. Now your fishing weightless but also ready to add weight back on the frame when needed.


2. How much weight should I use to reach the depths I want to fish?

How much weight to use varies from trip to trip and area to area. It is dependent upon tides, currents, wind conditions, boat speed, line out behind the boat and boat direction. Below is a chart which will give you a good idea where to start!



Note: Use a bit more weight than the chart below describes when trolling our Tube Tail Spoons!!


3. How fast should I troll the tube and worm rig?

Slow, slow, slow!!! 2mph or less is ideal!



4. What should I use as bait to add to my T-Man Striper Tube?

Fresh sandworms, thinly cut squid strips, nightcrawlers, eels or artificial plastic worms

5. What type of line should I use when trolling the Tube & Worm?

Braided Spectra fiber lines from 30-50 pound test work very well with the T-Man Striper Tube and Quick Change Weighted Keel system.

6. Will other fish besides stripers hit the tube and worm rig?

Yes! Bluefish and other gamefish will hit the tube and worm rig readily!

Here's a list of fish caught on T-Man Striper Tubes ove the last few years...

Striped Bass, Bluefish, Blackfish, Fluke, Scup, Sea Bass, Sand Shark, Barracuda, Cobia, False Albacore Tuna and Weakfish.


7. Does the tube color really matter?

Absolutely. The scarlet tubes are consistently effective in almost all conditions. However, when fishing in murky or stained waters, try the hot pink or Hi-Vis bubblegum tube. The ebony tube can also be very productive just about anytime. Don't be afraid to troll a couple of different colors to help get a feel for what's hot on a given day!!

[DarkSkies]

Just some pics to illustrate the most basic of the T&W rigs.







Remember the following....

1. The T&W without a sandworm is like a store bought fish rig without the hook.

2. You can use other choices besides sandworms. Will they work?...sandworms are like crack to most fish. Wanna use something else?... be my guest, catch less fish.

3. Remember that a T&W setup will catch not only bass and blues, but other bottom fish as welll. Most of the online discussions speak about targeting bass and blues. We'll try to touch on other examples here.

4. There are a lot of technical things to remember for people who really get into this type of fishing. You can make it as complicated or simple as you want. I prefer simple, that's just me.

5. Try to follow the basic presentation and methods, but don't be afraid to experiment with different styles based on the water you're fishing.

6. Color? ...Use any color ya want, as long as it's wine red!






and I'll try to add to this when I have time, or you guys feel free to add to it as well.

[albiealert]

http://kayakcarl.com/

This guy is becoming pretty popular. A lot of kayakers fishing the islands of the Eastern Sound seem to be talking about his tubes because they have memory, and the wire lets you mold it however you want.

[DarkSkies]

Thanks Albie, Kayak Carl has grown in popularity, and it's easy to see why. He puts a lot of thought into the tubes he makes and how they will present in the water.

*************


Some people sent me some PMs and e-mails asking about the T&W. I'll preface this by saying there are quite a few guys out there who are amazingly talented at this. They're certifiable maniacs when it comes to T&W fishing. That probably happens once you start to use this and see how it produces. It's addictive as hell.

Others out there have a lot more experience doing this. To some of them, as mentioned, I have a deep gratitude for their generosity and patience in showing me.

I'll try to list here some of the things that have worked for me.....

Remember the techniques I describe below are best suited to trolling shallow areas with structure. If you want to try other areas, such as bridges, etc, you'll have to decide how to modify the techniques accordingly.






********************
Tube and Worm techniques for shallow water with structure:

1. Depth: I'm fishing 5-15' of water, any deeper and it seems they won't hit. (That could have a lot to do with the weight, as mentioned in point #2) This T&W advice is tailored to fishing rocky shoreline and shallow flats with rocky areas.

2. Weight: Weight is anywhere from 3/4 - 1 oz, depending on the tide and area. This is an important factor. You want to be touching bottom at times without hitting it constantly and picking up a lot of weeds. One thing I learned is you have to be flexible enough to know when to change the weight at the different tide stages. If you're fishing low tide, you need to adjust, but you still need to troll structure and rocky shoreline, or points off those areas.


Variations: You would have to adapt differently in deeper water or when fishing different structure like bridges. For example, when fishing bridge areas, you might need 1-3oz in weight to get you down where the bass are holding. This would all depend on stage of tide, moon phase (which determines curent flow and strength), and where the fish are feeding on that particular night.


As for weights, some who have a better handle on it than me fit the weight right in the top body of the tube. This allows the T&W to move more naturally under water and makes it less susceptible to snagging.

If you don't want to do that, I would recommend you place a very short length of 100# leader right before the top swivel, and tie your egg sinker into that 4" length so it's as close to the swivel as possible.

Pics of the ones I use are in this thread:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...?t=6408&page=5

3. Sandworms: if you think of a T&W as a "sandworm delivery system" you're already thinking better than most anglers. The tube and the action is what brings the fish in, the blood from the sandworm is what seals the deal and provokes the aggressive strikes.

Some people recommend a whole sandworm. I'm on a budget and can't afford to burn through 12 dozen each time out there. Also, bait stealers like porgies will peck at your offering without getting hooked when you have worm pieces dangling everywhere. I use a 1-2" piece, only enough to get the blood scent in the water, and change frequently. If you go 5-10 minutes without a hit, you're doing something wrong trolling, or you need to swap for a fresh worm piece. I generally get 3 baits out of each sandworm.

4. Tube size: different people have different theories on this. What has worked for me is 15-23". A good friend made me up some with #5 circle hooks. The hookup rate with these is great as they are all hooked in the mouth corners.

5. Colors: black and red are great colors. Others have done well using bubblegum color in murky or deeper water. I'm still experimenting and will be trying some smaller ones in bright primary colors with smaller hooks, for porgies.

The problem with smaller tubes is figuring the weight and kayak trolling speed combinations needed to keep them consistently near the bottom. The fish are always there when there is bait around. If you don't keep in contact with the bottom, you would never know that.

6. Trolling speed: Many recommend about 1mph. I don't have electronics right now, so my speed estimates are subjective. I try to keep in contact with the bottom. If the wind or current is pushing me faster than that, I have found it better to troll against either of those so I can better control the speed. In fact, when I really started paying attention to that and the presentation, I started catching more fish.

7. Presentation: A key mistake I made when I first started this was I didn't have the horizontal rod holders. You can get these "Scotty-type" at many kayak shops, or Cabelas. These allow your rod to be used like they do on the boats, with the T&W moving along the structure in a relatively smooth parallel action. Having the rods placed vertically hurts your hookup chances because the T&W will dance up and down too much, and the fish will miss it.

I compensate for this lack of proper holders by holding both rods tightly in a vice-like grip in my hands as I pedal along, kind of like Yosemite Sam. The rods are held at a right angle to the kayak and in a perfect horizontal direction from the water. I'll have the holders soon. In the meantime, the hits that come while you're holding the rods like this are like a jolt of lightning, and very addictive.

[DarkSkies]

6. Trolling speed: Many recommend about 1mph. I don't have electronics right now, so my speed estimates are subjective. I try to keep in contact with the bottom. If the wind or current is pushing me faster than that, I have found it better to troll against either of those so I can better control the speed. In fact, when I really started paying attention to that and the presentation, I started catching more fish.

I just wanted to repeat what I said here. Today the water was choppy, it was pretty windy, and there were some rollers. I also was fishing deeper water hoping for some surprises. I was using 1 oz egg sinkers all day. This made it a challenge when I trolled rocky areas, snagging was a regular occurrence. However, only by keeping in regular contact with the bottom was I able to get strikes. Whenever I had to speed up, rounding a corner, etc, the tube was not in the strike zone and I got no hits.

Also, I wouldn't say my speed was steady today. I slowed down or speeded up in response to water depth and bottom contour. The best results happened when I really paid attention to that. I'm doing this without electronics, so I kind of do it by "feel".

Others may have different solutions, but this is what works for me.

[DarkSkies]

Having the rods placed vertically hurts your hookup chances because the T&W will dance up and down too much, and the fish will miss it.

I compensate for this lack of proper holders by holding both rods tightly in a vice-like grip in my hands as I pedal along, kind of like Yosemite Sam. The rods are held at a right angle to the kayak and in a perfect horizontal direction from the water. I'll have the holders soon. In the meantime, the hits that come while you're holding the rods like this are like a jolt of lightning, and very addictive.

Again I want to stress the importance of keeping those rods held horizontally. The guy I was fishing with yesterday hooked less bass than I did on the T&W. I was holding the rods horizontally, his were vertical. He's a great fisherman though, a true fanatic and managed to get action going other ways.

But I wanted to try to illustrate the subtle difference that technique can sometimes make in your actual catch ratio.

I haven't had time to get the Scotty holders yet, so I'm still trolling like Yosemite Sam.

Yesterday was more of a challenge as there was lots of seaweed on the bottom where we were. You would have to stop and re-start every time you felt a slight weight on the tube. Otherwise the presentation is a waste of time if not done effectively.

[DarkSkies]

Yesterday's report:
"1.We each lost a few other fish on the T&W. I think the murky water may have had something to do with that. Visibility was at most 1-2'. The visibility of the water I usually fish T&W at is at least 6-8'. "

From my limited experience, I would recommend some different tactics trolling the T&W in murky water:
a. Brightly colored tubes - a bright yellow, bubblegum pink, flourescent orange or chartreuse tube may have a catching advantage in murky water.

"2. The wind was a steady 20mph, with sustained gusts of 25mph.
The wind made it a little tough for us as it was wind against tide for most of the morning. That can sometimes be to your advantage, I'll explain in the T&W thread in the kayak forums."

When the wind is blowing WITH the tide and the current is strong, the trolling speed may often be too fast. If you don't bounce bottom occasionally you're not fishing effectively. (Again, this is for shallow water areas, others may have techniques that work better for them).
Your job as a successful T&W fisherman is to figure out how best to present to the fish so they will see and have time to hit it, keeping it in the strike zone the longest.

Sometimes it's better to troll against the tide or wind. Vary your retrieve so you're bouncing bottom.





If the hits are light in murky water, it may be because the fish have trouble keying in on the tube to hit the hook.
Slow down your presentation or figure out a way to keep the tube in the strike zone longer.

[DarkSkies]

If you're using this method right, you'll know because you'll start to rack up numbers. A lot of them will be small bass. Part of responsible fishing is to try to reduce the mortality rate of released fish.

I really don't take the fish out of the water unless I'm keeping it, and try to handle it as little as possible.

Circle hooks go a long way toward decreasing fish mortality, especially with T&W fishing.

I don't know if others are using these or not. Finchaser made me up a batch, and I have come to love fishing the tubes he made because of the hassle free, clean releases.

During the fall runs, I have seen surf fishermen drop or kick a short bass on the beach, or carelessly toss it into the water, all because they're too lazy to bend down a bit and release it the right way.

Why increase fish mortality if you have the choice not to?

These are baby bass we're talking about, a few extra seconds won't take away from your fishin time that much.

For this reason, I'm grateful Finchaser hooked me up with the tubes he made.

[Monty]

Great thread Dark.

[nitestrikes]

I haven't had time to get the Scotty holders yet, so I'm still trolling like Yosemite Sam.

With or without the handlebar mustache?

[baitstealer]

Never fished t&W thanks for the advice.

[vpass]

Dark, thanks for the info. Maybe next year in june I'll have a yak to try the T&W. I'm saving my pennies.

[DarkSkies]

Ya don't have to wait till next year to try it out, V. All ya need is a way to put a yak on the top of your vehicle, and I'll take ya out there. Let me know, the fishin's worth the trip.

[dogfish]

It seems like you're jumping through the learning curve right quick now.
What ya gotta do Dark, is troll those suckers along the structure at night, or start fishing the bridges down by you. You would be surprised what lives on the bottom. Ramp up the weight a bit so you're about halfway down in the water column with your drift. You'll catch em up.

[dogfish]

With or without the handlebar mustache?

Love the yosemite sam pic!
yosemite dark!

[DarkSkies]

2 day report


Mon PM - yak fished 3 hours in windy conditions, 1 short bass on T&W.
At first I planned to fish a few places, but the first stop proved difficult with the steady wind. I missed the flood tide as well, and had to fight against current for the duration. However, after hearing all the great yak reports for 4 days, I theorized some other places would be holding good bodies of fish for the artificial bite. I was dead wrong on this theory, and spent the 3 hours proving it to myself. In the end, I was able to scratch one small bass on a T&W. The lamemess of that was apparent, as I trolled past lots of structure. If there were a reasonable amount of bass there, I should have had more action.

Slightly discouraged and with a building wind, I bagged if for the night with the yak still on the car.









Tue AM- had a small window before it got snotty this AM. Had 1 hour to fish before work. Got to the party a little late. It seems some of the nicer fish are nailed right around sunrise. Managed 2 short yak bass on artificials. Attachment 13432

They're hitting the plugs hard on the troll. I initially started out much further than I needed to be until I realized the fish are in relatively tight.

I started trolling bombers but got no love with them. Switched to small flashy yo-zuris, and got action within a few minutes. I got 2 short bass after that, and had to stop to get to work. The tide was dropping out anyway, and you could see the action dropped with the dropping tide.... (I believe this is called EBB Tide.... )

Met MSGDan (DannyV) out there and some of the guys he was with. He was giving pointers to a newbie, a younger kid who seemed very appreciative as Danny got him into a few fish. Despite his unselfishness, Danny remained high hook for the morning, getting into 15 fish to 36". 10 of these were 30" and better.

There were also a lot of small fish hooked as well, but the level of activity was the addicting part for me. Although I missed most of it, the little that I did experience will keep me coming me back until those fish spread out.

On the way in, I got a chance to talk with Dan a little more. I'm thinking about nominating this guy for a Kayak outdoorsman of the Year award. In a world where many fishermen, shore, yak, boat, are into it for the numbers and the ego, MSGDan is one of the old-school sportsmen, never too busy to help a new guy out or talk fishing. And he's about as hard-core as they come. Nice to finally meet ya, Dan.

I took some pics of his fish. Maybe if I get his permission, I'll post later. Quality fish, they seem to be eating well.

[hookedonbass]

Tube n worm revisited

This came from kayakfishing, I think JonSchein wrote it? interesting read.


Several years back I was introduced to a deadly kayak fishing technique, the Tube in Worm (TnW). Over the past few years I’ve been fishing out of the area a lot and while in the area I’ve used other methods. The 6th Annual JBay Tournament reminded me just how effective a technique the TnW is. On Friday of the event I was chatting with a couple guys who caught 35 stripers between them on the rig while most people fishing that day only managed bluefish. When I was originally introduced to the TnW it was early August and my buddy JoeV caught over 30 bass that sultry morning. Speaking with another friend he told me last summer he did very well in the western Sound using it, also in August. A few years back I spent a few days at Cuttyhunk with Mike Laptew. He’s an underwater videographer and photographer. He wanted to get some kayak fishing shots. Mike snorkels and acts as a bird dog in the water spotting fish. The problem was things were off and he didn’t spot any stripers. I followed him towing a TnW and managed two nice bass. Mike said I pulled those fish out of the ether. That’s the power of the rig. I attended the Striper Shootout, held in Salem, MA and things were a bit slow. Again it was the ticket to catching a lot of fish. Last this past November I joined the crew from the NY KFA on a trip to the Cement Ships at Kiptopeke. A few of the guys decided to try the Bay Bridge and wanted to use the TnW. At the local bait shop there weren’t any sandworms but and the folks there told the guys the TnW didn’t work in these parts saying those northern techniques don’t work here. So they substituted with a Gulp! Sandworm and John landed a 49” striper. Ironically the bait shop was having a striper tournament over the weekend and the biggest

bass was 38 pounds. John’s fish would have easily won the contest, so much for a Yankee fishing methods on Dixie bass. The rig works.

To refresh your memory the TnW consists of a surgical tube that’s rigged to spin. On the end is a piece of bait, usually a sandworm. To prevent the spinning tube from twisting the line most fishermen use either some high quality swivels or a rudder. When using a rudder I like to have it two feet above the tube. Rudders come in a few forms. The most common being a simple plastic one. The first rigs we got from JoeV had a plastic rudder in the system.

The TnW is essentially and attractor lure to get the fishes attention. Then they smell the bait and that triggers the strike. Sandworms are the most common bait put on the hook but bloods can be used too. I often call the TnW a sandworm delivery system. Guys have been using Gulp with good success too and it has worked for me. Carl 4x4, a TnW maker, makes a TnW he calls the stinky. It has material at the end. You fill the tube with a fish oil (can be bunker, shrimp, crab, whatever you prefer) and it leaves a scent trail in the water. It’s very convenient as bait isn’t always available and can be a hassle. Besides it gets expensive. The spinning tube gets the fishes attention and then they smell the bait. It is very effective and unlike many forms of bait fishing



it isn’t passive. Some people cast the rig off of jetties and structure but I don’t find it very practical from a kayak. In a kayak the technique is to troll. It’s a terrific search presentation because it allows you to cover a lot of water.

As to tackle anything will do but I suggest leaning well to the heavy side. That first day with JoeV I watched him lose two very big bass because his gear couldn’t keep those bass out of the rocks. I learned this lesson the hard way a couple weeks later using the rig for the first time. Joey, Doug and I were fishing Montauk at night when I hooked a fish that I was helpless to control. The fish took a lot of line on the first run, stopped, probably laughed, and then went on a second run and broke me off in the rocks. Now I use heavy braid, preferring 65 pound or heavier. I like a rod with some muscle too - something that can control a big fish. I go back and forth between spin and conventional gear. It you’re fishing shallow water a spin outfit is preferable. That’s because you’re going to want to cast the TnW to get it away from the kayak. Conventions aren’t as easy to cast. In deeper water it doesn’t matter. When using spin gear I prefer a 4500 sized reel and it’s usually teamed up with an Ugly Stik BWS1100, which is 8 feet and rated 1-4 oz. When using a conventional I use an Avet SX and a Tsunami rod, also eight feet.

I make my own rigs and mine is a modular system. That way I can replace any of the components. There are a couple reasons I suggest doing this. Hooks can and will rust out so I can replace the hook without destroying the rig. While the tubing is tough, bluefish also love the rig and eventually they will destroy it so the ability to replace the tube is nice. When I want the rig to run shallow I use a plastic rudder but at times it’s necessary to get deep. A couple days after the 6th JBay tourney a few of us hit the bay targeting the big tide runner weakfish. Unfortunately we didn’t find any and I think the bright sunshine was the reason. We marked plenty of fish in the channels but were only catching the occasional bluefish. George trolled two rigs and on one he replaced his rudder with a T-man rig, which is a wire rudder frame that allows barrel sinkers to be placed on it. This way you can control the depth. I had read online about the rigs and had made up a bunch of my own. As soon as George put one on he started banging bass. He got over a dozen to 33”. When George caught up to Eddie and me he told us of his success. I had several of my homemade T-Men in my TnW kit so I put one on and gave another to Eddie. We both started getting fish. Unfortunately the bluefish started getting thick but we did manage some nice bass and I even got a doormat fluke. Between the tube and the rudder there’s a leader of about two feet in length. I prefer heavy line and usually use 80 pound fluorocarbon or 100 pound mono. Why so heavy? That’s because when there’s structure around bass are going to head for it and even the heavy tackle might not prevent them from doing so. On that Cuttyhunk trip with Mike I had a fish fray my 80 pound leader and curl off half of it. With it sliced in half I effectively had 40 pound which was enough line left to land the 18 pound bass. If I had started with 40 pound it would have resulted in a lost fish and tube.

I have tubes in a variety of colors but haven’t found it to make much of a difference. My first tubes were burgundy red and it is the most common color. I also carry chartreuse and bubblegum pink. When I first learned about the TnW it was said to work great for Tuna and all sorts of species. I think I’m going to have to do some more experimenting with it and see what else succumbs to this fish catcher.

[rockhopper]

Awesome thread! Makes me want to run right out and buy a kayak! I thought the hobie guys ruled in the game, but here is a video where john skinner nails em too, love to hear that fish run.

[williehookem]

I would have never guessed you could catch bass that big on gulp and not the real thing.