Dark Skies Conservation Corner

[finchaser]

From finchaser answering Leadheads comment

Thanks leadhead I follow years of patterns I've logged and put in lots of hours. It was a slow year for bass compared to other years well under my yearly average .Remember I fish mostly everyday when conditions are right and only report catches. Been at this close to 50 years started when limit was 10 fish at 18 inches and seen it all never thought I'd see a decline as fast as this especially with this YOY average at .89 losest ever.

[DarkSkies]

Been at this close to 50 years

started when limit was 10 fish at 18 inches

and seen it all

never thought I'd see a decline as fast as this

especially with this YOY average at .89 lowest ever.

Fin and I were talking about this......and we knew it was time for another thread.....
(I can imagine as many of you are reading this, you are simultaneously rolling your eyes.......and thinking "No, not again! When is he gonna get off this bandwagon....I'm sick of hearing it....all this Negativity! Sick of hearing it and I don't want to listen anymore! ")



If that's the way you feel, fine, but I would like to remind the skeptics out there...that those who do not remember the sins of the past, are doomed to repeat them........

[DarkSkies]

This is a recent number for the Chesapeake YOY....
Other numbers for the Hudson and Delaware stocks may be different........

The significance, is that this stat is 90% less than when the YOY showing was at it's highest.

Yes you read those figures right, folks.....90% less.......


for those of ya's who are or ....we'll try to come back in this thread, and explain why these numbers are alarming, and historically significant.....


As some of ya's can see, I don't have as much time for these threads as I used to....so if anyone, can find ANY info on this stat, and ANYTHING related to this topic of Conservation.....Fin, the Old Farts out there, Old Salts, and others, and I. would be most grateful.........


If you don't understand or disagree with these stats as they relate to the striped bass population....feel free to bring that up as well...and we'll try our best to answer these questions, by sharing what those who fish every day....are seeing......














I know many think of these types of threads as less interesting....but you can read about what is happpening now......
Or take up golf, if it becomes necessary to institute another Striped Bass Moratorium........

And with the YOY Chesapeake stats that low....that's the direction this is heading.......




Thanks for reading, folks......

[storminsteve]

90% that is so hard to understand. I had no idea that number would be so off. Ithink it was last year or 2011 they were saying the Hudson or Chesapeake year of the young numbers were good. I think finchaser or someone else pointed out that although one year might be good it would take 8 years for those small fry to fully mature.

[finchaser]

there are full charts to back all this up in thismonths Saltwater Sportsman magazine

[Monty]

Fin and I were talking about this......and we knew it was time for another thread.....
(I can imagine as many of you are reading this, you are simultaneously rolling your eyes.......and thinking [B]"No, not again! When is he gonna get off this bandwagon....I'm sick of hearing it....all this Negativity!

I'm not sick of hearing it. I am frustrated that very little is being done to address this.
What is being done? Some people have limited their kill to very few if any Stripers. Some people have limited the size of their kill "not killing the big girls".
What else is being done?
What percentage of people who fish for Stripers do you think actually care about this?

Like buckethead posted, guys like mentioned here don't care one bit.

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...r-Fun-or-Glory

[DarkSkies]

What percentage of people who fish for Stripers do you think actually care about this?

I agree with ya, Monty....and it saddens me......
I try to raise awareness as best I can....and over the years have noticed there are now more trying to raise awareness......

Overall, though, there are more folks that don't care, than do care......
A big issue is trying to get through to guys who only fish from boats......to them they may not be seeing any differences as they can morv around to find the middle of a group of fish..........

I had to come terms with this recently as I developed friendships with some charter capts who also say they care about conservation....
Yet.....
In our conversations I began to realize that we had different perspectives as we fish different zones........

[DarkSkies]

So, long-term, the goal is to educate folks, without apprearing to be self-rightous.......a delicate walk of diplomacy and choosing your words carefully.....

And trying to consolidate and identify the others out there who have a long term perspective and have real concerns for the future of the bass,.....hoping that these folks can energize the others, if not by words, by example......

[jigfreak]

I
A big issue is trying to get through to guys who only fish from boats......

I think total numbers show that boat guys catch about 94% of all bass and surf guys catch the other 6% if you are looking at the breakdown of all rec catches. So why not go after the ones that do the most damage?

[jonthepain]

and therein lies the rub

[buckethead]

and therein lies the rub

Makes you wonder if anything other than a moratorium will ever change anything. You can talk to some people till you're blue in the face they will not listen. Thanks for trying, though.

[DarkSkies]

I think total numbers show that boat guys catch about 94% of all bass and surf guys catch the other 6% if you are looking at the breakdown of all rec catches. So why not go after the ones that do the most damage?

Jigfreak, I agree and your stats are right on when you are talking about the breakdown among recreational anglers.

Let's assume there is some error in there, and say that surf anglers catch about 20% of the bass.(even though that is a large overstatement)
That means that 80% or more, of striped bass are harvested by anglers other than surf anglers.

Reaching that group has been a problem.
I'm registered on most of the popular saltwater sites out there and try to promote discussion on this every winter. For some years it has been tough, as a lot of the guys, as mentioned, don't want to hear it.

However, recently some well-known Capts have voiced their opinions that the rate we are harvesting, is greater than the reproduction rate.
This cannot continue without a decline.







*******
For the last 5-8 years, some others and I have seen a decline in our logs of fish caught, and tried to pay more attention to why. The best answer we can come up with (among many possibilities) is that there is a decline in the biomass.

[DarkSkies]

Other factors, mycobacteriosis, offshore migration, different temperature trends, global warming, can all be cited as well.....

However, in conversations with folks who fish a lot, averaging at least a few trips a week, I have seen that the general consensus is that we are harvesting too many.

Here is just one example of what fishermen are saying....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...ghlight=timers

The solution to this would seem simple, by collectively reducing our harvest....

It's important to note that this decline continues despite the highly touted YOY figures for the Hudson stock 2 years ago....one good number cannot sustain an entire fishery......and that's why it's important to continue to educate folks as to what is really happening out there.

To do that, requires credible voices in all connected fisheries, to stand up and speak plainly about what they are seeing, without seeming they are preaching.






I do agree with your claim, jigfreak, that surf fishermen are part of the problem, but a much smaller part.

And that is the biggest challenge we need to work on out there....to try and enlighten the other 90%.

Thanks for the opinions folks...all are appreciated.

[jonthepain]

keep up the good work. it's big time worth it.

[lostatsea]

^^X2. Maybe we will have to have the government change the regs. In the meantime raising awareness can't hurt. thanks and keep it up.

[DarkSkies]

If we don't watchout the Stripers will be in the same boat as the whiting for next generation of fisherman.

Absolutely vpass......thanks for making that point.....I know you have been fishing for them your whole life, since you were a kid.....

The educatlon of the younger anglers out there is a critical part of the process......
There are some of the newer guys in their 20's starting to understand...and seeing the benefit of C&R...but the thing about C&R fishing is you can't push it on anyone...nor should you try...
...the best way to reach people is through education.
We try our best to do that here....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...release-thread






There are a core group of fishermen who refuse to believe there is anything wrong with the bass stocks.....
Such as the ones that point to the Hudson YOY 2011 # as proof of a strong biomass....

What folks need to understand is that the most important stats are not a single YOY tally....but the trendiing upward or downward of stats as taken over a broad time frame, like a 5-10 year period.

And when you look at it as an aggregate of YOY stats in combination of what it harvested, over a minimum period of a decade or more....
It's hard to argue that the bass stocks are as healthy as they were...because overall, there has been a decline.....

Most importantly, as the old timers here keep stating over and over....
We are harvesting at a greater rate, than the bass are being replaced......
This is the critical trend that we need to help the folks out there understand...before it really is too late......

[DarkSkies]

Absolutely vpass......thanks for making that point.....I know you have been fishing for them your whole life, since you were a kid.....

The educatlon of the younger anglers out there is a critical part of the process......
There are some of the newer guys in their 20's starting to understand...and seeing the benefit of C&R...the thing about C&R fishing is you can't push it on anyone...nor should you try...
...the best way to reach people is through education.
We try our best to do that here....
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...release-thread






There are a core group of fishermen who refuse to believe there is anything wrong with the bass stocks.....
Such as the ones that point to the Hudson YOY 2011 # as proof of a strong biomass....

What folks need to understand is that the most important stats are not a single YOY tally....but the trending upward or downward of stats as taken over a broad time frame, like a 5-10 year period.

And when you look at it as an aggregate of YOY stats in combination of what it harvested, over a minimum period of a decade or more....
It's hard to argue that the bass stocks are as healthy as they were...because overall, there has been a decline.....

Most importantly, as the old timers here keep stating over and over....
**We are harvesting at a greater rate, than the bass are being replaced......
This is the critical trend that we need to help the folks out there understand...before it really is too late......

Because of the trends I was seeing, 2 years ago I decided to document Coastwide what was happening with the bass stocks...broken down by regional observations, with a bi-annual assessment period.

Admittedly it's a crude attempt....as there are no scientific data points that would allow scientists to accept it as valid........
but folks reading it should know that somehow, over the years, I've managed to meet and befriend hundreds of fishermen who fish regularly......

This thread, which attempts to qualify this decline on an annual basis.......is the result of hundreds of conversations every year, with fishermen who fish regularly, and have been fishing for decades.
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...***+assessment

[DarkSkies]

From our thread, "Striped Bass have never been healthier"

http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...Been-Healthier










This is just a paraphrase of what Bill Wetzel is saying........


**I agree with it all, as I have seen it, and every year have to try to explain to guys who are new to the sport, why the fishing they are saying is "Epic" at Montauk is but a mere shadow of what it was, just 7 short years ago




Bill Wetzel.....
"There are thousands of sandeels at Montauk in the Spring, thousands of them......
Fluke blitzing on them, all over, but not one bass.....
This is a common occurrence......
A smorgasbord of fluke, sandeels, bait...but no bass........

This summer, there was tons of bait on the North and South shore, no small bass on them....
Some blame the water temps....F*** that! I take the water temps every time I go out, and it was not the temperature...

I'm out there all the time, 40 hours a week, and I know what I see....If striped bass are so healthy how come they haven't expanded their range?
Guides in Maine are quitting there are so few bass there they can't make a living from them...

Last year fishing at Montauk was terrible...this year we got some nice fish, true, but where were all the smaller bass? ..7 years ago it was a no brainer to catch numbers at Montauk"

[DarkSkies]

Additionally, the other threads you see listed below, are some of many here that try to educate folks who may not know, understand, or may only have been fishing a few seasons and may not have this perspective....

1. Candid conversations:
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...t-striped-bass

2. Striped Bass have never been healthier?
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...Been-Healthier

3. Back Bay and Bait Fishing and Migration Patterns
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...shing-patterns

4. Where are the Striped Bass?
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...e+are+the+bass


5. Honey the Striped Bass are Shrinking!
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...e+are+the+bass

6. www.StripersAndAnglers.com Coastwide Bass Assessment
http://stripersandanglers.com/Forum/...***+assessment




What's important is these are not random opinions by me on a soapbox, but a compilation of hundreds of critically honest observations by Captains and Anglers...all along the East Coast, who I have been fortunate enough to meet and remain in contact with. I'm very grateful for their opinions as these are the folks who fish more than most.....







And absent quantitative data, or data that is sometimes flawed or skewed (look at the recent dispute in the Seabass assessments and biomass calcs)

I would submit that this Qualitative method of gathering and presenting assessments of hundreds of anglers...is as accurate a picture as you wll get at this time....and can been seen as a compelling indicator of
1. Trends
2. Concerns
3. Rationales
4. Critical Field Observations

[DarkSkies]

I know these Conservation posts are not the most interesting to talk about....that's why you see lots of highlighting and Smiley icons.....


Folks need to understand how they are all inter-related.....

1. Close down the sea-bass, folks will put fishing pressure on the fluke...
2. Curtail the fluke and sea-bass, folks will naturally put pressure on another species....namely the striped bass.........


What about groundfish....the Great Codfish Recovery?